{"id":1,"date":"2014-07-25T00:28:19","date_gmt":"2014-07-25T00:28:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=1"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:55","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:55","slug":"hello-world","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=1","title":{"rendered":"Makos 5b Shiur 7\/22\/14\u200f"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Makos 5b<\/span><\/p>\n

1. We mentioned the\u00a0<\/span>s<\/span><\/i>hitah<\/span><\/i>\u00a0of Rabbi Yehudah, that if\u00a0<\/span>a<\/span>\u00a0pair \u00a0[A] <\/span>witnesses\u00a0<\/span>testify and new\u00a0<\/span>witnesses\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>[B]<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0come along and are mazim the [A}<\/span>\u00a0<\/span>,\u00a0<\/span>and then another set [C] comes along and testifies exactly as the first set [A], and they too are contradicted by [B],\u00a0<\/span>neither [A] or [C] are considered Eidim Zomimin. This is because we assume that this\u00a0<\/span>[B]\u00a0<\/span>is a\u00a0<\/span>set<\/span>\u00a0of plotters who have conspire<\/span>d<\/span>\u00a0to discredit anyone who testifies against the accused.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span>The questions was asked, at the end of the day the Torah says that if\u00a0<\/span>a set [B] of witnesses\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0comes and says “you were with us at the same time as you say the\u00a0<\/span>e<\/span><\/i>idus<\/span><\/i>\u00a0about the other person” they\u00a0<\/span>[A]\u00a0<\/span>are considered Eidim Zomemin,\u00a0<\/span>so\u00a0<\/span>who cares how many\u00a0<\/span>more sets [C-Z] of\u00a0<\/span>witnesses\u00a0<\/span>contradict them<\/span>? They should all be considered Eidim Zomemin?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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\u00a0<\/span>We answered that what Rabbi Yehdah means to say is that once there are many sets<\/span>\u00a0[C, D ..]\u00a0<\/span>coming and saying the same thing, and the same two people\u00a0<\/span>[B] are\u00a0<\/span>refuting all of them, then this is not going to be a din in Eidus, but rather a separate din that\u00a0when Beis Din sees something fishy they cancel the e<\/b><\/span>ntire case.<\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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\u00a0<\/span><\/b>2. The Gemara mentions the famous rule regarding Eidim Zomemin\u00a0“Ka’asher Zomom, Vlo Kasher Asah”\u00a0<\/i>if the verdict was already carried out\u00a0<\/span>on<\/span>\u00a0the defendant the Edim Zomemin do\u00a0not<\/b>\u00a0get punished.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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\u00a0<\/span>Surprisingly the Rambam seems to learn that the Gemara only uses this rule regarding death and does not pertain to Malkus or money. The obvious question is, nowhere in the Gemara does it mention this distinction,<\/span>\u00a0thus<\/span>\u00a0where did the Rambam get \u00a0this\u00a0differentiation. The question is so strong the the Raavad on this Halacha proclaims that the Rambam made a big mistake.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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The Kesef Mishnah (By Reb Yosef Karo\u00a0English<\/a>,\u00a0Hebrew<\/a>\u00a0author of Shulchan Aruch) first tries to say that regarding money you can always return the money therefore there is no “Kasher Asah”, but this would only answer regarding money and not regarding\u00a0Malkus<\/i>?<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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He therefore gives two answers:<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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1. \u00a0Since judgment is ultimately in God’s hands, had the executed party not been guilty, God would not have allowed him to be executed<\/span>\u00a0by a proper Beis Din<\/span>. Hence the lying witnesses need not be punished<\/span>\u00a0by humans. They will be dealt with by God himself.\u00a0<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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2. That the punishments inflicted by the courts are not goals in their own right, but means to bring a person to atonement.\u00a0<\/span>The sin of causing a human being to die is exceptionally severe. I<\/span>t is not fitting to give\u00a0<\/span>these\u00a0<\/span>lying witnesses<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0who\u00a0<\/span>caused<\/span>\u00a0a person\u00a0<\/span>to be\u00a0<\/span>executed<\/span>,<\/span>\u00a0the opportunity to achieve such atonement.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Attached please find the\u00a0<\/span>Rambam<\/span>\u00a0with the Kesef Mishnah.<\/span><\/p>\n

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\u05e2\u05d3\u05d9\u05dd \u05d6\u05d5\u05de\u05de\u05d9\u05df<\/a><\/p>\n

\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Makos 5b 1. We mentioned the\u00a0shitah\u00a0of Rabbi Yehudah, that if\u00a0a\u00a0pair \u00a0[A] witnesses\u00a0testify and new\u00a0witnesses\u00a0\u00a0[B]\u00a0\u00a0come along and are mazim the [A}\u00a0,\u00a0and then another set [C] comes along and testifies exactly as the first set [A], and they too are contradicted by [B],\u00a0neither [A] or [C] are considered Eidim Zomimin. This is because we assume that this\u00a0[B]\u00a0is … Continue reading Makos 5b Shiur 7\/22\/14\u200f<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4759,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1\/revisions\/4759"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}