{"id":1590,"date":"2019-02-28T02:51:21","date_gmt":"2019-02-28T02:51:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=1590"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:51","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:51","slug":"mikvaos-siman-201-shiur-7-02-26-19","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=1590","title":{"rendered":"Mikvaos Siman 201, Shiur 7 02\/26\/19"},"content":{"rendered":"

Shiur 7 – 02\/26\/19<\/span><\/p>\n

1- We learned the \u05de\u05d7\u05d1\u05e8 and \u05e8\u05de”\u05d0 concerning placing one \u05db\u05dc\u05d9 into another and then dipping both into a mikvah. <\/span><\/p>\n

The Mechaber uses the term\u00a0 “a\u00a0\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d8\u05de\u05d0 ”\u00a0<\/span>.\u00a0 We discussed this at length that although today, for practical purposes, we do not have any practical halachos relating to \u05d8\u05d5\u05de\u05d0\u05d4 and \u05d8\u05d4\u05e8\u05d4, at least as it pertains to food and \u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd, \u00a0there was a time that some people kept their homes at a high level of \u2018\u05d8\u05d4\u05e8\u05d4’.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\u00d7\u00a8\u00d7\u0091\u00d7\u0099<\/p>\n

\u05d1\u05df \u05d0\u05d9\u05e9 \u05d7\u05d9<\/a><\/p>\n

For example, a Kohen, who needed to be \u05d8\u05d4\u05d5\u05e8 when eating \u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05de\u05d4, may have elected to have all his food, even the non \u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05de\u05d4, at a level of \u05d8\u05d4\u05d5\u05e8. It would make life simpler for him.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

We spoke about these levels.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u05d7\u05d5\u05dc\u05d9\u05df at a level of \u00a0simple \u05d8\u05d4\u05e8\u05d4.\u00a0 <\/span><\/p>\n

\u05d7\u05d5\u05dc\u05d9\u05df at the level of \u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05de\u05d4 and \u00a0even higher – \u05d7\u05d5\u05dc\u05d9\u05df at the level of \u05e7\u05d3\u05e9\u05d9\u05dd. [We mentioned an even higher level – the level of the \u05e4\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d3\u05d5\u05de\u05d4]. <\/span><\/p>\n

2- Some say<\/a> the famous \u05d1\u05df \u05d0\u05d9\u05e9 \u05d7\u05d9 kept to one of the above levels.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

3- We tried to understand the reasoning behind the Halacha in \u05e1\u05e2\u05d9\u05e3 \u05d8. The \u05e9”\u05da quotes from R’ Shimson<\/a>, (of Coucy), and his father\u2019s explanation. \u00a0See below. <\/span><\/p>\n

\"Related<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

4- We reviewed a drawing showing a Mikvah with two \u2018boros\u2019 and how each elevates the water from the tap, which is \u2018sheuvin\u2019 to \u2018mei geshomim\u2019 and a kosher Mikvah. <\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

5- Here is \u05e1\u05e2\u05d9\u05e3 \u05d8. Thanks to Dani Chitrik for the translation. <\/span><\/p>\n

Mechaber<\/i><\/b><\/p>\n

\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d8\u05de\u05d0 \u05e9\u05e0\u05ea\u05df \u05d1\u05ea\u05d5\u05db\u05d5 \u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05d0\u05d7\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd \u05d5\u05d4\u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9, \u05e2\u05dc\u05ea\u05d4 \u05dc\u05d4\u05dd \u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05d4 \u05d0\u05e3 \u05e2\u05dc \u05e4\u05d9 \u05e9\u05e4\u05d9 \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05e6\u05e8 \u05d1\u05d9\u05d5\u05ea\u05e8, \u05e9\u05d4\u05e8\u05d9 \u05d4\u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05db\u05e0\u05e1\u05d9\u05dd \u05dc\u05d5, \u05d5\u05de\u05ea\u05d5\u05da \u05e9\u05e2\u05dc\u05ea\u05d4 \u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05d4 \u05dc\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d4\u05d2\u05d3\u05d5\u05dc \u05e2\u05dc\u05ea\u05d4 \u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05d4 \u05dc\u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05e9\u05d1\u05ea\u05d5\u05db\u05d5 –<\/b> An impure vessel that other vessels were put inside of, and the vessel was immersed, their immersion is valid even if the vessel\u2019s opening is very narrow, because water does get inside it, and since the immersion was valid for the large vessel, it is valid for the vessels inside of it.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05d0\u05dd \u05d4\u05d8\u05d4\u05d5 \u05e2\u05dc \u05e6\u05d3\u05d5 \u05d5\u05d4\u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc, \u05dc\u05d0 \u05e2\u05dc\u05ea\u05d4 \u05dc\u05d4\u05dd \u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05d4 \u05e2\u05d3 \u05e9\u05d9\u05d4\u05d9\u05d4 \u05e4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05e8\u05d7\u05d1 \u05db\u05e9\u05e4\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05ea \u05d4\u05e0\u05d0\u05d3 – <\/b>However<\/span>, If it was turned on its side and immersed, the immersion is not valid for them unless the opening is as large as a \u00a0vat spout.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05db\u05df \u05d0\u05dd \u05d4\u05d9\u05d4 \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d8\u05d4\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d5\u05e0\u05ea\u05df \u05dc\u05ea\u05d5\u05db\u05d5 \u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05d8\u05de\u05d0\u05d9\u05df \u05d5\u05d4\u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05df, \u05dc\u05d0 \u05e2\u05dc\u05ea\u05d4 \u05dc\u05d4\u05dd \u05d8\u05d1\u05d9\u05dc\u05d4, \u05e2\u05d3 \u05e9\u05d9\u05d4\u05d9\u05d4 \u05e4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05e8\u05d7\u05d1 \u05db\u05e9\u05e4\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05ea \u05d4\u05e0\u05d5\u05d3 – So, too, if the vessel was pure and impure vessels were put inside of it and it was immersed, their immersion is invalid, unless the opening is the size of a bladder spout.<\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u05d4\u05d2\u05d4:<\/b><\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05de\u05d5\u05ea\u05e8 \u05dc\u05d8\u05d1\u05d5\u05dc \u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05d1\u05e1\u05dc \u05d0\u05d5 \u05d1\u05e9\u05e7, \u05d3\u05db\u05d9\u05d5\u05df \u05d3\u05d0\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 \u05de\u05d7\u05d6\u05d9\u05e7 \u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05e2\u05d3\u05d9\u05e3 \u05d8\u05e4\u05d9 \u05de\u05e0\u05d9\u05e7\u05d1 \u05db\u05e9\u05e4\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05ea \u05d4\u05e0\u05d5\u05d3 (\u05d1\u05d9\u05ea \u05d9\u05d5\u05e1\u05e3 \u05d1\u05e9\u05dd \u05de\u05e9\u05e0\u05d4 \u05d5\u05e4\u05d9\u05e8\u05e9 \u05d4\u05e8”\u05e9 \u05e4”\u05d5 \u05d3\u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d5\u05e8\u05de\u05d1”\u05dd \u05e4”\u05d5) –<\/b> . <\/span>And one may immerse vessels in a basket or sack, since as it does not hold water, it is even better than an opening the size of a bladder spout.<\/b><\/p>\n

——<\/b><\/p>\n

\u05e9”\u05da<\/b><\/a><\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05d0\u05dd \u05d4\u05d8\u05d4\u05d5 \u05e2\u05dc \u05e6\u05d3\u05d5. \u05db\u05f4\u05d7:<\/b><\/p>\n

\u05dc\u05e9\u05d5\u05df \u05e8’ \u05e9\u05de\u05e9\u05d5\u05df \u2013 Rav Shimshon (<\/b>\u05e8”\u05e9 \u05de\u05e9\u05d0\u05e0\u05e5<\/span>) explained this <\/b>halachic reasoning as follows: <\/span>\u00a0\u05d3\u05d1\u05e4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05dc\u05de\u05e2\u05dc\u05d4 \u05db\u05d9\u05d5\u05df \u05e9\u05d4\u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05e6\u05e4\u05d9\u05dd \u05e2\u05dc \u05d2\u05d1\u05d9\u05d5 \u05d4\u05d5\u05d9 \u05d7\u05d9\u05d1\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d1\u05db\u05dc \u05e9\u05d4\u05d5\u05d0 \u05d0\u05d1\u05dc \u05db\u05e9\u05de\u05d8\u05d4\u05d5 \u05e2\u05dc \u05e6\u05d3\u05d4\u05d5 \u05d0\u05d9\u05df \u05de\u05ea\u05d7\u05d1\u05e8 \u05dc\u05de\u05e2\u05dc\u05d4 \u05d0\u05dc\u05d0 \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05e6\u05d3 \u05dc\u05db\u05da \u05d1\u05e2\u05d9 \u05e9\u05e4\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05ea \u05d4\u05e0\u05d0\u05d3 \u05e2\u05db”\u05dc \u00a0– <\/b><\/p>\n

When the opening <\/b>of the vessel <\/span>is upwards, because the water overflows on top, it\u2019s considered a connection. <\/b>Even<\/span> if only a small amount <\/b>touches the water above it. <\/span>However, <\/b>when the vessel is laying sideways, <\/span>it\u2019s not connected above <\/b>to the water<\/span>, and would therefore need an opening the size of a vat spout.<\/b><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u05e8”\u05dc \u05d3\u05de\u05e6\u05e8\u05d9\u05da \u05e9\u05d9\u05d4\u05d0 \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05e0\u05d8\u05d1\u05dc \u05d1\u05ea\u05d5\u05da \u05d4\u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d5\u05de\u05d9 \u05d4\u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d9\u05d4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05e2\u05dc \u05d2\u05d1\u05d9 \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u00a0– Meaning, that he, <\/b>Rav Shimshon holds that Halachically we <\/span>need the vessel to be immersed inside the <\/b>mikvah <\/i><\/b>and that the waters of the <\/b>mikvah<\/i><\/b> should be on top of the <\/b>opening of the<\/span> vessel. \u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/i><\/b>\u05d0”\u05db \u05db\u05e9\u05e4\u05d9\u05d5 \u05dc\u05de\u05e2\u05dc\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d6 \u05d4\u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05d1\u05ea\u05d5\u05da \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d5\u05d2\u05e2\u05d9\u05dd \u05dc\u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05de\u05ea\u05d7\u05d1\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd \u05dc\u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d5\u05d9\u05e9 \u05dc\u05d4\u05dd \u05d3\u05d9\u05df \u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d5\u05de\u05db\u05e1\u05d9\u05dd \u05e2\u05dc \u05d4\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u00a0– Therefore, when the mouth<\/b> of the vessel <\/span>is upwards, the water inside the vessel that is touching the water of the <\/b>mikvah<\/i><\/b>,<\/span><\/i> connect it to the <\/b>mikvah<\/i><\/b> and is now considered as <\/b>part of <\/span>the <\/b>original <\/span>mikvah<\/i><\/b> waters;<\/span> and it <\/b>now<\/span> covers the <\/b>2<\/span>nd<\/span> vessel <\/b>inside the first vessel<\/span>. \u05de\u05d4 \u05e9\u05d0\u05d9\u05df \u05db\u05df \u05db\u05e9\u05de\u05ea\u05d7\u05d1\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05e6\u05d3 \u00a0\u00a0– However when the water is connected from the side \u00a0\u05e9\u05d0\u05d6 \u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05e9\u05e2\u05dc \u05d2\u05d1\u05d9 \u05db\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd \u05dc\u05d0 \u05e0\u05d7\u05e9\u05d1\u05d5 \u05db\u05de\u05d9 \u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 – Then <\/b>in this instance, <\/span>the waters above the vessel are not considered like the waters of the <\/b>mikvah \u00a0\u00a0<\/i><\/b>\u05e8\u05e7 \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05e6\u05d3 \u05de\u05d4 \u05e9\u05e9\u05d5\u05d4 \u05dc\u05de\u05d9 \u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05e0\u05d7\u05e9\u05d1 \u05dc\u05de\u05d9 \u05de\u05e7\u05d5\u05d4 \u00a0– <\/b>The <\/span>only<\/b> waters<\/b> that <\/span>are considered as if they\u2019re <\/b>mikvah<\/i><\/b> water <\/span>are<\/b> those from <\/span>the side <\/b>which can only purify the outer vessel and not the inner one \u00a0<\/span>\u05db\u05da \u05e4\u05d9’ \u05d4\u05d2\u05d0\u05d5\u05df \u05d0\u05de”\u05d5 \u05d6\u05e6”\u05dc \u2013 This is how my father explained it – \u00a0.\u05d5\u05d4\u05e2\u05d8”\u05d6 \u05e4\u05d9’ \u05d1\u05e2”\u05d0 \u05d5\u05d4\u05d5\u05d0 \u05de\u05d2\u05d5\u05de\u05d2\u05dd \u05e2”\u05e9 \u05d5\u05e2”\u05dc \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e8”\u05d1 \u05e1”\u05d2<\/b><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Shiur 7 – 02\/26\/19 1- We learned the \u05de\u05d7\u05d1\u05e8 and \u05e8\u05de”\u05d0 concerning placing one \u05db\u05dc\u05d9 into another and then dipping both into a mikvah. The Mechaber uses the term\u00a0 “a\u00a0\u05db\u05dc\u05d9 \u05d8\u05de\u05d0 ”\u00a0.\u00a0 We discussed this at length that although today, for practical purposes, we do not have any practical halachos relating to \u05d8\u05d5\u05de\u05d0\u05d4 and \u05d8\u05d4\u05e8\u05d4, … Continue reading Mikvaos Siman 201, Shiur 7 02\/26\/19<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1590","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1590","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1590"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1590\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1596,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1590\/revisions\/1596"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1590"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1590"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1590"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}