{"id":2577,"date":"2022-01-14T00:10:49","date_gmt":"2022-01-14T00:10:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=2577"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:48","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:48","slug":"shiur-sukkah-32b2-1-11-22","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=2577","title":{"rendered":"Shiur Sukkah 32b(2) – 1\/11\/22"},"content":{"rendered":"

BSD<\/span><\/p>\n

Sukkah 32b(2) – 33a.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Shvat 9<\/span>, 5782. January 11, 2021<\/p>\n

1 – We reviewed the issue of the Lulovim that are of a different species – unlike the ones that have been used as far back in time as we can trace.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

2 – Having completed the laws of Lulav the next Mishna discusses \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1\u05d9\u05dd.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Myrtle<\/p>\n

Hadasim – Myrtle<\/em><\/p>\n

The Torah says that we need to use \u05e2\u05e0\u05e3 \u05e2\u05e5 \u05e2\u05d1\u05d5\u05ea. A stem that has braided leaves. That\u2019s not very specific. What type of twig\/stem\/leaf is that?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Watercolor<\/p>\n

Olive Branch<\/em><\/p>\n

The Gemara suggested that perhaps \u05e2\u05e0\u05e3 \u05e2\u05e5 \u05e2\u05d1\u05d5\u05ea means a plant called \u05d4\u05d9\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e3. It then says that it cannot mean this plant since Torah laws are meant to be pleasant.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

What is Hirdof? And what is not pleasant about it?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0Rashi says it is a poisonous plant no less!\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

\u05d4\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e3 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d7\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd<\/a> – \u05e1\u05d9\u05d3\u05d5\u05e8 \u05e2\u05dc\u05d9\u05dd “\u05de\u05e9\u05d5\u05dc\u05e9”<\/p>\n

Tosfos says it cannot mean that, since \u05d4\u05d9\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e3 is a plant that can be used for\u2026. \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8. It can indeed be bitter\u2026.. But not poisonous.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So Tosfos suggests that \u05d4\u05d9\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e3 is a thorny<\/em> plant. Using it would scratch the user. On the other hand, for \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8 it would work, since this plant can be ground into small pieces and the thorns would be crushed.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u05ea\u05e0\u05d9 \u05d3\u05d1\u05d9 \u05e9\u05de\u05d5\u05d0\u05dc \u05d0\u05dc\u05d5 \u05d9\u05e8\u05e7\u05d5\u05ea \u05e9\u05d0\u05d3\u05dd \u05d9\u05d5\u05e6\u05d0 \u05d1\u05d4\u05df \u05d9\u05d3\u05d9 \u05d7\u05d5\u05d1\u05ea\u05d5 \u05d1\u05e4\u05e1\u05d7 \u05d1\u05d7\u05d6\u05e8\u05ea \u05d1\u05e2\u05d5\u05dc\u05e9\u05d9\u05df \u05d5\u05d1\u05ea\u05de\u05db\u05d0 \u05d5\u05d1\u05d7\u05e8\u05d1\u05d9\u05e0\u05d9\u05df \u05d5\u05d1\u05d7\u05e8\u05d2\u05d9\u05e0\u05d9\u05df \u05d5\u05d1\u05d4\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e4<\/strong><\/em>\u05e0\u05d9\u05df …. \u05d0\u05de\u05e8 \u05dc\u05d9\u05d4 \u05e8\u05d1 \u05e8\u05d7\u05d5\u05de\u05d9 \u05dc\u05d0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d9: \u05de\u05de\u05d0\u05d9 \u05d3\u05d4\u05d0\u05d9 \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8 \u05de\u05d9\u05df \u05d9\u05e8\u05e7 \u05d4\u05d5\u05d0? … \u05d5\u05d0\u05d9\u05de\u05d0 \u05d4\u05d9\u05e8\u05d3\u05d5\u05e3? \u05d3\u05d5\u05de\u05d9\u05d0 \u05d3\u05de\u05e6\u05d4, \u05de\u05d4 \u05de\u05e6\u05d4 \u05de\u05d9\u05df \u05d6\u05e8\u05e2\u05d9\u05dd \u05d0\u05e3 \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8 \u05de\u05d9\u05df \u05d6\u05e8\u05e2\u05d9\u05dd \u05d5\u05db\u05d5'” (\u05e4\u05e1\u05d7\u05d9\u05dd, \u05dc\u05d8 \u05e2”\u05d0).<\/p>\n

We mentioned, that in passing, we see that for the \u05de\u05e6\u05d5\u05d5\u05d4 of \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8 one can grind it. Some \u05de\u05d7\u05de\u05d9\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd actually bite into a solid piece of \u05de\u05e8\u05d5\u05e8.
\nSee \u05d4\u05d2\u05d3\u05d4 \u05de\u05e2\u05e9\u05d4 \u05e0\u05d9\u05e1\u05d9\u05dd. And Rashash here.<\/span><\/p>\n

Was this the Rebbe\u2019s \u05de\u05e0\u05d4\u05d2?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

The berries of a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

3 – The opinion of Reb Eliezer ben Yaakov is: we know that \u05e2\u05e0\u05e3 \u05e2\u05e5 \u05e2\u05d1\u05d5\u05ea\u00a0 – a branch of a\u00a0braided or plaited<\/em> tree – means \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1\u05d9\u05dd because the Torah means to imply a tree\/bush that produces a fruit that has the same taste as the tree or stem itself. The \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 bush fit this category since the berries that grow on the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 tastes like the stem it grows on.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Detail<\/p>\n

Myrtle with Berries<\/em><\/p>\n

[Some say that the meaning here of \u05e2\u05e6\u05d5, does not mean the stem. Rather it means the outside<\/em> shell of the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 berry and the \u05d0\u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05d2. More on this in the future bl\u201dn].\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

4- The obvious question is that we all know that only the \u05d0\u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05d2 has that characteristic. As we will see further on (35a) <\/span>\u05ea\u05e0\u05d5 \u05e8\u05d1\u05e0\u05df, ‘\u05e4\u05e8\u05d9 \u05e2\u05e5 \u05d4\u05d3\u05e8’ –\u00a0 \u05e2\u05e5 \u05e9\u05d8\u05e2\u05dd \u05e2\u05e6\u05d5 \u05d5\u05e4\u05e8\u05d9\u05d5 \u05e9\u05d5\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d4\u05d5\u05d9 \u05d0\u05d5\u05de\u05e8 \u05d6\u05d4 \u05d0\u05ea\u05e8\u05d5\u05d2”\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The answer discussed is that the berries of the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 tree are not considered \u2018fruit\u2019 per se. This is because the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 tree itself is not considered a \u2018fruit tree\u2019.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Myrtle<\/p>\n

Myrtle Berries<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

The \u05d1\u05e8\u05db\u05d4\u00a0 one makes on these \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1<\/span>\u00a0berries is actually \u05e9\u05d4\u05db\u05dc !
\n(according to the Arizal you make \u05d4\u05d0\u05d3\u05de\u05d4. Thanks Zev Sero). Here<\/a>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

See<\/span> here<\/span><\/a>:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Alter Rebbe, OC 203.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

We spoke about the \u05d9\u05d0\u05d2\u05d9\u05d3\u05e2\u201d\u05e1 (berries in Russian <\/span>\u044f\u0433\u043e\u0434\u044b<\/span>) on which the Alter Rebbe says one should make a \u05d0\u05d3\u05de\u05d4, if they are black<\/strong> in color. Is he referring to blueberries? Blackberries?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\u0410\u043d\u0442\u0438\u0444\u0435\u0439\u043a:<\/p>\n

5 – Our Mishnah says that if a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 has more berries than leaves then it is \u05e4\u05e1\u05d5\u05dc. One may remove these berries to make a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 \u05db\u05e9\u05e8. It adds \u2018but one may not remove the berries on Yom Tov\u2019. <\/span><\/p>\n

Rashi explains that removing them would be a \u05de\u05ea\u05e7\u05df \u05de\u05e0\u05d0- like fixing\/repairing an object on Yom Tov\u00a0 which is prohibited \u05de\u05d3\u05e8\u05d1\u05e0\u05df.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Kosher<\/p>\n

Some say opening a bottle on Shabbos is prohibited because of \u05de\u05db\u05d4 \u05d1\u05e4\u05d8\u05d9\u05e9 or \u05de\u05ea\u05e7\u05df \u05de\u05e0\u05d0<\/span>. Above is the “Shabbos Bottle Opener”<\/em><\/p>\n

See here<\/a><\/p>\n

We mentioned an interesting \u05de\u05e8\u05d3\u05db\u05d9 that says that in the case of the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1, such a \u2018fixing\u2019 is prohibited \u05de\u05d3\u05d0\u05d5\u05e8\u05d9\u05d9\u05ea\u05d0. His reason is based on a universal concept\u00a0 [discussed in previous \u05e9\u05d9\u05e2\u05d5\u05e8\u05d9\u05dd] that when performing a mitzvah, even if the act is considered \u2018minor\u2019, the \u05de\u05e6\u05d5\u05d5\u05d4 gives this act \u2018importance\u2019. It elevates such an act from \u2018simple and small\u2019 to \u2018large and important\u2019.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

\u05de\u05e8\u05d3\u05db\u05d9, \u05e1\u05d5\u05db\u05d4 , \u05ea\u05e9\u05de\u05d6<\/p>\n

Thus says the \u05de\u05e8\u05d3\u05db\u05d9, snipping off these berries on Yom Tov, since it creates an object to use as a \u05de\u05e6\u05d5\u05d4, a Kosher \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1, this act is now prohibited \u05de\u05df \u05d4\u05ea\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

6- <\/span>Yud Shvat.\u00a0<\/b><\/p>\n

We spoke about the Frierdiker Rebbe, in the \u05d1\u05d0\u05ea\u05d9 \u05dc\u05d2\u05e0\u05d9 which he prepared for Yud Shvat, discusses the importance of time, since \u2018who knows when he will pass away\u2019!\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

7- Our Gemara says that a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 needs to have 3 leaves on one row. According to Rashi, it needs to have three leaves coming out of one (of the mini) stem(s). Tosafos says that it \u00a0is almost impossible to find.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Sukka<\/p>\n

A \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 that does not have 3 leaves on each row is called a <\/span>\u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 \u05e9\u05d5\u05d8\u05d4<\/b>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\u05e9\u05d5\u05d8\u05d4 like a \u05d1\u05db\u05d5\u05e8 \u05e9\u05d5\u05d8\u05d4 . A half \u05d1\u05db\u05d5\u05e8.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

A \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 is sometimes called <\/span>\u05e9\u05d9\u05d8\u05d5\u05ea\u05d0<\/b>. So \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1\\\u05e9\u05d9\u05d8\u05d5\u05ea\u05d0 has two meanings. The Hodos branch and \u2018foolishness\u2019.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

8- Interestingly, in the \u05de\u05d0\u05de\u05e8 above, he brings the story of\u00a0 \u05e8\u05d1 \u05e9\u05de\u05d5\u05d0\u05dc \u05d1\u05e8 \u05e8\u05d1 \u05d9\u05e6\u05d7\u05e7 who danced at a wedding with a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1. Some colleagues mocked him, thinking that is was unbecoming for a \u05ea\u05dc\u05de\u05d9\u05d3 \u05d7\u05db\u05dd to act so. At his funeral, a pillar of fire \u2018separated his coffin from the crowd\u2019.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

People realized then that his dancing using a \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1, which seemed \u2018foolish\u2019 was actually very proper to do. Using the \u05d4\u05d3\u05e1 to dance, which <\/span>seemed <\/i><\/b>\u2018foolish, \u05e9\u05d9\u05d8\u05d5\u05ea\u05d0, was the cause for the fire!\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

9- We spoke about the \u05de\u05d3\u05e8\u05e9 \u05e4\u05dc\u05d9\u05d0\u05d4.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u05d0\u05d3\u05dd \u05d3\u05d5\u05d0\u05d2 \u05e2\u05dc \u05d0\u05d9\u05d1\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d3\u05de\u05d9\u05d5 \u05d5\u05d0\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 \u05d3\u05d5\u05d0\u05d2 \u05e2\u05dc \u05d0\u05d9\u05d1\u05d5\u05d3 \u05d9\u05de\u05d9\u05d5<\/a>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Will write it out bl\u201dn at a future time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

————————-<\/span><\/p>\n

From <\/span>Chabad.org<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n

Thus we read (Kesubbos 17a) that “it was said of Rebi Yehudah the son of Rebi Ilai that at weddings he would twirl a sprig of myrtle as he danced before the bride.”<\/span><\/p>\n

The Talmud goes on to say that “as Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak danced, he would juggle three (‘twigs of myrtle’ \u2014 Rashi). Said Rebi Zeira: ‘This venerable sage is embarrassing us’ (‘by making light of the respect due to Torah scholars through his undignified behavior’ \u2014 <\/span>Rashi<\/span><\/a>).<\/span><\/p>\n

\"MGL<\/p>\n

When Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak passed away, “a pillar of fire appeared, separating him from all those who were near him.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Rebi Zeira thereupon retracted his previous remark.<\/span><\/p>\n

[Three versions of his retraction are recorded in the <\/span>Talmud<\/span><\/a>.]<\/span><\/p>\n

The first:<\/span><\/p>\n

“The venerable sage has been well served by his sprig” (<\/span>Shot-ie-ah<\/span><\/i>), (‘the sprig of myrtle with which he used to dance’ Rashi).<\/span><\/p>\n

The second version:<\/span><\/p>\n

“The venerable sage has been well served by his folly” (<\/span>Shtusay<\/span><\/i>), (‘for he clowned like a fool’ \u2014 Rashi).<\/span><\/p>\n

The third version:<\/span><\/p>\n

“The venerable sage has been well served by his policy” (<\/span>Shitosay<\/span><\/i>), (‘by his customary course of conduct’ (Rashi).<\/span><\/p>\n

Folly of this kind transcends understanding, and thus represents a wondrously superior mode of conduct.<\/span><\/p>\n

[The following citation from the Talmud throws light on the nonrational \u2014 i.e., superrational \u2014 conduct of the above-named Sages at weddings.]<\/span><\/p>\n

“If a man (<\/span>Ish<\/span><\/i>) and a woman (<\/span>Isha<\/span><\/i>) are found worthy, the Divine Presence abides between them.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"\u05d0\u05ea\u05d9\u05d5\u05ea<\/p>\n

For <\/span>Ish<\/span><\/i> is composed of <\/span>Esh<\/span><\/i> (‘fire’) and the letter <\/span>Yud<\/span><\/i>; <\/span>Isha<\/span><\/i> is composed of <\/span>Esh<\/span><\/i> and the letter <\/span>Heh<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

When a man and a woman are found worthy, [i.e., when they approach marriage in a G\u2011dly way], the letters <\/span>yud<\/span><\/i> and <\/span>heh<\/span><\/i> combine to spell the Name of G\u2011d: the <\/span>Shechinah<\/span><\/i> dwells in their midst.” (Moreover, the Divine Presence then becomes manifest in the kind of marriage that is called \u2014 “an everlasting edifice.”)<\/span><\/p>\n

Because a marriage thus elicits such prodigious spiritual power, the joy of the Sages at weddings would burst the conventional bounds of propriety.<\/span><\/p>\n

Indeed, in the wake of the dancing of Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak, he was granted a sublime revelation of Divine favor: “a pillar of fire appeared, separating him from all those who were near him” \u2014 a true revelation of Divine light.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

BSD Sukkah 32b(2) – 33a.\u00a0 Shvat 9, 5782. January 11, 2021 1 – We reviewed the issue of the Lulovim that are of a different species – unlike the ones that have been used as far back in time as we can trace.\u00a0 2 – Having completed the laws of Lulav the next Mishna discusses … Continue reading Shiur Sukkah 32b(2) – 1\/11\/22<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2577","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2577","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2577"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2577\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4186,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2577\/revisions\/4186"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2577"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2577"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2577"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}