{"id":355,"date":"2015-06-05T17:25:47","date_gmt":"2015-06-05T17:25:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=355"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:54","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:54","slug":"shiur-060215","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=355","title":{"rendered":"Makos 19a Shiur 06\/02\/15"},"content":{"rendered":"

Makos 19a<\/p>\n

Special thanks to Eli Chitrik.<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. We mentioned the famous Rabbeinu Tam, Tosafos Kiddushin 36b,\u00a0reason\u00a0<\/a>(twelve lines from the bottom)\u00a0as to why there is no obligation to give Terumos and M’asros on fruits which grow outside <\/strong>of Eretz Yisrael: “because essentially the land does not belong to us… it belongs to the governing body of the land. The only place where a person actually owns the physical land is in Eretz Yisrael”.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    \"\"<\/p>\n

    Rabbeinu Tam<\/p>\n

      \n
    1. We discussed the Rambam regarding the holiness of Eretz Yisrael:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      To see the Rambam in full see here<\/a>\u00a0Halacha 15\u00a0onward.<\/p>\n

      Background:<\/p>\n

      The history of the\u00a0conquering\u00a0and\u00a0settlement\u00a0land of\u00a0Israel\u00a0(and\u00a0subsequent\u00a0exiles) is split\u00a0into two:<\/p>\n

      1- The original\u00a0conquering\u00a0by the children of the generation that left Egypt. That came to a\u00a0bitter end at the first exile into Bavel (Babylon).<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      2- The second settlement movement and the rebuilding of the Second Temple by Ezrah the Scribe. That era too ended with the exile by the Romans.<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      What happened to the\u00a0sanctity\u00a0of the land and the Beis Hamikdash as a result of\u00a0these two exiles? What was the status of Eretz Yisroel for the seventy years of the first exile and what is the status today?<\/strong><\/p>\n

      Did the land retain its holiness? If yes, then the laws pertaining to it still apply – in\u00a0practical\u00a0terms\u00a0one must give Teruma and Maaser on the produce grown in Israel.<\/p>\n

      Similarly the question is also on the\u00a0state of\u00a0Holiness of Yerushalayim and the area where the Beis Hamikdash was standing. Did the Kedusha of the Beis Hamikdash disappear after Nebuchadnezzar\u00a0destroyed\u00a0it? What about the\u00a0destruction\u00a0by\u00a0Titus?<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

       <\/p>\n

      If the\u00a0sanctity\u00a0on the Beis Hamikdash remains unchanged then one would be prohibited to enter\u00a0that area unless one was “Tahor” – something not\u00a0practical\u00a0today.<\/p>\n

      We find various opinions on both of the above questions in Shas.<\/p>\n

      3- The Rambam has an original take on the above. His ruling:<\/p>\n

      1- In regards to the land –<\/p>\n

      A- The first and original\u00a0sanctification\u00a0was\u00a0nullified\u00a0at the onset of the first exile.<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      B- The second sanctification by Ezrah was not be\u00a0nullified; it is\u00a0eternal.<\/p>\n

      2- In regard to Yerushalayim and the area of the Beis Hamikdash:<\/p>\n

      The first\u00a0sanctification\u00a0by Dovid and Shlomo Hamelech was never nullified. Even when most Jews were in\u00a0Babylon\u00a0the area of the Temple Mount\u00a0retained\u00a0its status.<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      In short, the Rambam maintains that anything which\u00a0was\u00a0conquered originally does not maintain the Kedusha of E”Y, however anything which was taken over\u00a0subsequently\u00a0by Ezra does\u00a0maintain\u00a0it’s\u00a0holiness to this day.<\/p>\n

      Why?\u00a0What is his rationale?<\/p>\n

      \"\"<\/p>\n

      When they first entered Eretz Yisrael they did through means of “conquest”. Therefore once they were driven out of the land\u00a0their\u00a0“conquest” was\u00a0nullified.<\/p>\n

      However when they came back for the second time they took it through “Chazakah” (occupation, or right of possession) and a Chazakah is something which is\u00a0maintained\u00a0for eternity.<\/p>\n

      This Rambam seems to be very\u00a0problematic\u00a0on\u00a0many\u00a0accounts.<\/p>\n

      Firstly the Kesef Mishnah asks two questions:<\/p>\n

        \n
      1. On\u00a0what basis is\u00a0Chazakah\u00a0<\/em>considered a more effective means of acquisition than conquest?<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

         <\/p>\n

        \"\"<\/p>\n

         <\/p>\n

          \n
        1. After the initial conquest of\u00a0Eretz Yisrael<\/em>, the Jewish people manifested their ownership over it and thus, effected a\u00a0Chazakah<\/em>. If so, why is Ezra’s\u00a0Chazakah<\/em>, which was not preceded by conquest, more effective than the\u00a0Chazakah\u00a0<\/em>which followed the original conquest? Why should the conquest detract from the consecration of the land?<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

          The Rebbe in a lengthy and complicated Sicha explains this Rambam:<\/p>\n

          (To see the Sicha in full see here<\/a>, to see a shorter synopsis see here<\/a>)<\/p>\n

          \u200b\u200bFrom Avraham’s time onward\u00a0Eretz Yisrael<\/em>\u00a0became the property of the Jewish people. Though the land was possessed by the Canaanites, the Jews were already its legal owners.<\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          Despite this claim of ownership, the sanctity of\u00a0Eretz Yisrael<\/em>\u00a0came about only after the Jewish people entered the land, after the redemption from Egypt. At that time, they were commanded to conquer the land and take it forcefully from the Gentiles.<\/p>\n

          Since G-d made the consecration of the land dependent on its conquest by Israel, it follows that conquest by a Gentile nation can indeed nullify that holiness.<\/p>\n

          In contrast, Ezra was not commanded to reconquer\u00a0Eretz Yisrael<\/em>, but rather to settle<\/em> it. Actually, there was no need to “conquer” since the had explicit permission granted to them by a decree of King Koresh (Cyrus<\/a>) .<\/p>\n

          In this instance, G-d made the sanctity of the land dependent upon the Jewish people manifesting their ownership over the land which had been given to them as an eternal inheritance.<\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          Since\u00a0Eretz Yisrael<\/em>\u00a0remains our land, regardless of how many times it has been conquered by Gentiles, the sanctity effected by that manifestation of ownership is also eternal.<\/p>\n

          4- As to the sanctity of the Yerushalayim and the Beis Hamikdash the Ramban comes up with a fascinating explanation\u00a0as to why once\u00a0consecrated\u00a0by Dovid and Shlomo\u00a0it can never be\u00a0annulled.<\/p>\n

           <\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          In his own words:<\/p>\n

          Since the sanctity of the Temple and Jerusalem stems from the\u00a0Shechinah<\/em>, and the\u00a0Shechinah<\/em>\u00a0can never be nullified.<\/p>\n

          5- We mentioned that although the Rambam\u2019s opinion is that the land of Israel, after the return of the Babylonian exile\u00a0sanctified\u00a0the land in a manner that cannot be\u00a0nullified,\u00a0nevertheless\u00a0his opinion (as opposed to others)<\/a> is that the laws of Teruma and Maaser are only applicable today mid\u2019Rabanan. Not De’oraisa.<\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          Why? Because in order to for the laws of Teruma etc. be\u00a0applicable\u00a0the majority of the Jewish worldwide population needs to be living in Israel!<\/p>\n

          We mentioned that the well-known religious Zionist Rabbi Eliezer Melamed\u00a0<\/a>who writes that he can’t wait for the\u00a0majority of Jews to settle in Israel and then the Mitzvah of Teruma and Maaser will be\u00a0De’oraisa.<\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          Since we don’t need all Jews, but just a simple majority, this can\/will occur with a single <\/strong>new individual that will make “aliya” or a new child born in Israel to tip the balance of the majority of Jews.<\/p>\n

          But he admits <\/a>that it would be a challenge\u00a0to know exactly when that will\u00a0occur\u00a0because to\u00a0ascertain the precise number of Jews\u00a0worldwide is not\u00a0practical.<\/p>\n

          \"\"<\/p>\n

          Nevertheless he is\u00a0hopeful\u00a0that\u00a0the time will come that enough Jews will live in Israel to be certain of a majority. At that time Teruma and Maaser will be\u00a0De’oraisa.<\/p>\n

           <\/p>\n

           <\/p>\n

           <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

          Makos 19a Special thanks to Eli Chitrik. We mentioned the famous Rabbeinu Tam, Tosafos Kiddushin 36b,\u00a0reason\u00a0(twelve lines from the bottom)\u00a0as to why there is no obligation to give Terumos and M’asros on fruits which grow outside of Eretz Yisrael: “because essentially the land does not belong to us… it belongs to the governing body of … Continue reading Makos 19a Shiur 06\/02\/15<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-355","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/355","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=355"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/355\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1133,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/355\/revisions\/1133"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=355"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=355"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=355"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}