{"id":365,"date":"2015-06-17T22:59:00","date_gmt":"2015-06-17T22:59:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=365"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:54","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:54","slug":"shiur-06162015","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=365","title":{"rendered":"Makos 20a  Shiur 06\/16\/2015"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Makos 20a<\/p>\n<p>1- We continued talking about Ma&#8217;aser Sheini, the obligation to bring a tenth (1\/10) of one\u2019s produce to Yerushalayim and eat it there.<\/p>\n<p>[If one lives too far from Yerushalayim then one can &#8220;transfer&#8221; the value of the fruit or grain to money, travel with the cash to Yerushalayim, purchase fresh food and eat it there.]<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/daatelyon.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/05\/the-first-series-of-grape-14046-001.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Once the food enters Yerushalayim it cannot be &#8216;transferred&#8217; to cash.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-366\" src=\"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/fruit-at-jaffa-gate-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"fruit at jaffa gate\" width=\"435\" height=\"290\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/fruit-at-jaffa-gate-300x200.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/06\/fruit-at-jaffa-gate.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 435px) 100vw, 435px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>The Gemara poses a question &#8211; what if the farmer, traveling with the fruit in his backpack, enters Yerushalayim and stops right at the gate &#8211; positioning himself inside the city but with the fruit remaining outside the city walls: Do we consider the fruit in or out?<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/johndunning.com\/fireworks\/inc\/jsml\/confirm-dialog.png\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>2- We mentioned Reb Yirmeyah &#8211; who is known for these type of quirky questions. In Bava Basra 23b he posed a question which caused him to be ousted from the Beis Hamidrash! \u00a0(see <a href=\"http:\/\/www.daat.ac.il\/daat\/kitveyet\/sinay\/madua.htm\">here <\/a>for Adin Steinzaltz&#8217;s take on this).<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"\" src=\"http:\/\/nspt4kids.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/10\/zero-tolerance.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"223\" height=\"251\" \/><\/p>\n<p>However on page 165b it relates that during the time he was ousted his colleagues could not solve a Talmudic issue and they sent the question out for his opinion. His reply pleased them so they readmitted him.<\/p>\n<p>Now &#8211; for our quirky question &#8211; for how long was Reb Yirmeyah outside the Beis Hamidrash?<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/i.neoseeker.com\/mgv\/581899\/899\/24\/hni_0065QZ7xQ.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Well, that depends&#8230; if that Beis Midrash was a Litvisher Yeshiva where they only cover 5-10 &#8216;dafim&#8217; a year&#8230;..then that would be a long time.<\/p>\n<p>On the other hand if it was a Chasidisher Yeshiva (or they were Daf Yomi followers&#8230;) his ouster was short lived&#8230;.<\/p>\n<p>In Nida 23a we find the ultimate humorous question by Reb Yirmeyah:<\/p>\n<p>He asked Rav Zeira a question about a very unusual case. According to Rebbi Meir, who says that a woman who miscarries a form that resembled an animal is tamei with Tum&#8217;as Yoledes as if she gave birth to a human, meaning that we consider the infant as human!<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/-PSkagG1_abU\/VF00pihjrwI\/AAAAAAAAm1s\/ZFvK2019G6M\/s1600\/Sheila-Marsh.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>woman and her baby horse<\/p>\n<p>Now a father can marry off his daughter if she is under the age of 12.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/7c_zppPutQw\/hqdefault.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p><em>A happy couple in their spacious cave<\/em><\/p>\n<p>So what is the law in a case in which one gives money to the father of such a creature in order to be Mekadesh the creature during the pregnancy? May he marry the animal&#8217;s sister afterwards?<\/p>\n<p>Rav Acha bar Yaakov explained that Rav Yirmeyah was merely trying to get Rav Zeira to laugh, but he did not succeed.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/www.jewlicious.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/03\/Funniest_Memes_how-does-moses-make-coffee_5273.jpeg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p><em>That&#8217;s not funny.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>What was Reb\u00a0Yirmeyah\u2019 s motivation for trying to amuse Rav Zeira and make him laugh?<\/p>\n<p>The Maharatz <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Zvi_Hirsch_Chajes\">Chayes<\/a> there explains that it is possible that many of the unusual questions throughout the Gemara that Rav Yirmeyah posed to Rav Zeira can be attributed to Reb Yirmeyah\u2019 s desire for Rav Zeira to laugh.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/upload.wikimedia.org\/wikipedia\/commons\/b\/b0\/Zvi_Hirsch_Chajes.JPG\" alt=\"\" width=\"189\" height=\"285\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Maharatz Chayes<\/p>\n<p>Rav Zeira was of a very serious nature and his student Reb Yirmeyah was attempting to get a laugh out of his teacher.<\/p>\n<p>3- We spoke about the concept that all produce which is about to be &#8220;tithed&#8217; &#8211; Truma and Ma&#8217;aser to be taken out of it &#8211; is in an abstract sense as if they were already taken out.<\/p>\n<p>Following this logic the Gemara concludes that produce, although un-tithed, which was in Yerushalayim we consider the Maaser Sheini that is in the pile separated and designated as Maaser Sheini.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/www.filination.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/03\/Mahne+Yehuda+Jerusalem+_17_.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><br \/>\nThis concept is called &#8220;&#8221;Matanos she&#8217;Lo Hurmu k&#8217;Mi she&#8217;Hurmu Damu&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>3- We continued discussing the issues one would encounter if Jews were to bring a Korban Tzibur prior to the coming of Moshiach. In the previous Shiur we mentioned some potential problems and how they were addressed by Reb Tzvi Hirsh Kalisher.<\/p>\n<p>Moshe Rosenfeld suggest <a href=\"http:\/\/www.yeshiva.co\/midrash\/shiur.asp?id=13417\">this<\/a> site for a quick overview.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/www.vosizneias.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/03\/pes3.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><br \/>\nOne issue is that Korbonos Tzibur must belong to the Tzibur. The Machatzis Hashekel was collected for this purpose. Once donated it becomes &#8220;public funds&#8221;. One cannot donate, say, ten sheep, for the Korban Tamid and still consider himself a &#8216;noted donor&#8217;.<\/p>\n<p>For example: The &#8220;kupa&#8217; cannot accept from the &#8220;The Joseph S. Gruss Sheep Fund&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;(Mr <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Joseph_S._Gruss\">Gruss <\/a>A&#8221;H was a great Bal Tzedoka. ULY on Albany was donated by him. His <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&amp;rlz=1C1RNCN_enUS363US363&amp;ion=1&amp;espv=2&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=gruss%20fund&amp;oq=gruss%20fund&amp;aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0l5.7160j0j4\">fund <\/a>distributes over $15,000,000 a year to Yeshivos!!)\\\\<img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/media.liveauctiongroup.net\/i\/12928\/13065776_2.jpg?v=8CF16EB121522F0\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>One may donate individually into this pot of Tzibur money on the condition that his name is not associated with his donation at all.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.law.upenn.edu\/live\/image\/gid\/18\/width\/325\/height\/306\/8319_josephcarolinegruss.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p><em>Joseph and Caroline Gruss<\/em><\/p>\n<p>So in theory, we can indeed create a &#8220;Klal Yisroel Animal&#8230;Fund&#8221; and accept individual donations that lose their individuality by becoming part of the fund.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com\/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTA8pRg7oT42c2fFCxx_KF7O-1EgE2RJ2GsVdCDNyW1nPTueR9S\" alt=\"Image result for animal fund\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Or can we? How do the trustees represent Klal Yisroel? Who appoints them? Do we need at least 50% participation to be considered representing Klal Yisroel?<\/p>\n<p>What of the millions of Jews that are unaware of this fund?\u00a0 Can we donate on their behalf?<\/p>\n<p>What if there are some who oppose this fund?<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/972mag.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/11\/NeturieKarta.jpg\" alt=\"\" \/><\/p>\n<p>We mentioned the famous Rav from Yerushalayim, Rabbi Yechiel Michel <a href=\"https:\/\/he.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/%D7%99%D7%97%D7%99%D7%90%D7%9C_%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%9C_%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A7%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99\">Tukatchinsky<\/a>, that wrote extensively on this <a href=\"http:\/\/beta.hebrewbooks.org\/pdfpager.aspx?req=14628&amp;st=&amp;pgnum=31\">topic<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Makos 20a 1- We continued talking about Ma&#8217;aser Sheini, the obligation to bring a tenth (1\/10) of one\u2019s produce to Yerushalayim and eat it there. [If one lives too far from Yerushalayim then one can &#8220;transfer&#8221; the value of the fruit or grain to money, travel with the cash to Yerushalayim, purchase fresh food and &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=365\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Makos 20a  Shiur 06\/16\/2015<\/span> <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-365","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/365","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=365"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/365\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1138,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/365\/revisions\/1138"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=365"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=365"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=365"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}