{"id":5236,"date":"2025-08-14T17:23:40","date_gmt":"2025-08-14T17:23:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=5236"},"modified":"2026-10-26T18:04:45","modified_gmt":"2026-10-26T18:04:45","slug":"5236","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/?p=5236","title":{"rendered":"Shiur Brochos 3a (2) – Menachem Av 18, 5785 08\/13\/2025"},"content":{"rendered":"

BSD<\/p>\n

Brochos 3a (2)<\/p>\n

Menachem Av 18, 5785 08\/13\/2025<\/p>\n

Short notes on topics discussed.<\/p>\n

1 – We continued on the topic of \u05ea\u05d9\u05e7\u05d5\u05df \u05d7\u05e6\u05d5\u05ea. Whereas in \u05e0\u05d2\u05dc\u05d4, it is not noted as a designated time to lament the \u05d7\u05d5\u05e8\u05d1\u05df,\u00a0 in the world of \u05e0\u05e1\u05ea\u05e8 there is much written about it.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

As mentioned last week the Alter Rebbe does not mention it in his \u05e9\u05dc\u05d7\u05df \u05e2\u05e8\u05d5\u05da, but added it when he began to rewrite it.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

2 – Spoke that the Alter Rebbe, despite his Siddur being very minimalist, omitting many parts that are printed in all Siddurim today (such as \u05e1\u05dc\u05d9\u05d7\u05d5\u05ea and \u05d0\u05d1\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 \u05de\u05dc\u05db\u05e0\u05d5 on a fast day), he did include \u05ea\u05d9\u05e7\u05d5\u05df \u05d7\u05e6\u05d5\u05ea in his Siddur.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

There is even a \u05de\u05d0\u05de\u05e8 that prefaces it – and a unique one at that. It is actually, as the Alter Rebbe begins, an elaboration and explanation on Tanya Chapter 43. Meaning that the Alter Rebbe himself wrote a \u05e4\u05d9\u05e8\u05d5\u05e9 on Tanya!<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

3 – The next piece of \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0 is a story of Reb Yosi and \u05d0\u05dc\u05d9\u05d4\u05d5 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0. We mentioned in a previous Shiur<\/a> the famous \u05d7\u05ea\u05dd \u05e1\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8<\/a> where he writes that \u05d0\u05dc\u05d9\u05d4\u05d5 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0 makes his reappearance in two ways – as a \u05e0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0 and as a \u05d7\u05db\u05dd.<\/p>\n

When in a \u05e0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0 form, his rulings on \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d4 would be problematic since \u05ea\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4 \u05dc\u05d0 \u05d1\u05e9\u05de\u05d9\u05dd \u05d4\u05d9\u05d0. However when he\u00a0 comes down as a human then he is just as any other \u05d7\u05db\u05dd.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Therefore, concludes the \u05d7\u05ea\u05dd \u05e1\u05d5\u05e4\u05e8, there is no issue with him advising Reb Yosi about various \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea,\u00a0 just as there is no problem when we say \u05ea\u05d9\u05e7\u05d5- which means that \u05d0\u05dc\u05d9\u05d4\u05d5 \u05d4\u05e0\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0 will resolve many questions that were left unanswered.<\/p>\n

4 – Part of the conversation:<\/p>\n

\u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b7\u05e8 \u05dc\u05b4\u05d9: \u05d1\u05b0\u05bc\u05e0\u05b4\u05d9, \u05de\u05b7\u05d4 \u05e7\u05bc\u05d5\u05b9\u05dc \u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05de\u05b7\u05e2\u05b0\u05ea\u05b8\u05bc \u05d1\u05b0\u05bc\u05d7\u05d5\u05bc\u05e8\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d4 \u05d6\u05d5\u05b9? \u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b7\u05e8\u05b0\u05ea\u05b4\u05bc\u05d9 \u05dc\u05d5\u05b9: \u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05de\u05b7\u05e2\u05b0\u05ea\u05b4\u05bc\u05d9 \u05d1\u05b7\u05bc\u05ea \u05e7\u05d5\u05b9\u05dc \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05de\u05b0\u05bc\u05e0\u05b7\u05d4\u05b6\u05de\u05b6\u05ea \u05db\u05b7\u05bc\u05d9\u05bc\u05d5\u05b9\u05e0\u05b8\u05d4 \u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05de\u05b6\u05e8\u05b6\u05ea: \u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05d9 \u05dc\u05b4\u05d9 \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05d7\u05b8\u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b0\u05ea\u05b4\u05bc\u05d9 \u05d0\u05b6\u05ea \u05d1\u05b5\u05bc\u05d9\u05ea\u05b4\u05d9, \u05d5\u05b0\u05e9\u05b8\u05c2\u05e8\u05b7\u05e4\u05b0\u05ea\u05b4\u05bc\u05d9 \u05d0\u05b6\u05ea \u05d4\u05b5\u05d9\u05db\u05b8\u05dc\u05b4\u05d9, \u05d5\u05b0\u05d4\u05b4\u05d2\u05b0\u05dc\u05b5\u05d9\u05ea\u05b4\u05d9\u05dd \u05dc\u05b0\u05d1\u05b5\u05d9\u05df \u05d4\u05b8\u05d0\u05d5\u05bc\u05de\u05bc\u05d5\u05b9\u05ea. \u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b7\u05e8 \u05dc\u05b4\u05d9: \u05d7\u05b7\u05d9\u05b6\u05bc\u05d9\u05da\u05b8 \u05d5\u05b0\u05d7\u05b7\u05d9\u05b5\u05bc\u05d9 \u05e8\u05b9\u05d0\u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05da\u05b0! \u05dc\u05b9\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05e2\u05b8\u05d4 \u05d6\u05d5\u05b9 \u05d1\u05b4\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05d3 \u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05de\u05b6\u05e8\u05b6\u05ea \u05db\u05b8\u05bc\u05da\u05b0, \u05d0\u05b5\u05dc\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d1\u05b0\u05bc\u05db\u05b8\u05dc \u05d9\u05d5\u05b9\u05dd \u05d5\u05b8\u05d9\u05d5\u05b9\u05dd \u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05dc\u05b9\u05e9\u05c1 \u05e4\u05b0\u05bc\u05e2\u05b8\u05de\u05b4\u05d9\u05dd \u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05de\u05b6\u05e8\u05b6\u05ea \u05db\u05b8\u05bc\u05da\u05b0, \u05d5\u05b0\u05dc\u05b9\u05d0 \u05d6\u05d5\u05b9 \u05d1\u05b4\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05d3, \u05d0\u05b5\u05dc\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d1\u05b0\u05bc\u05e9\u05b8\u05c1\u05e2\u05b8\u05d4 \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05d9\u05b4\u05bc\u05e9\u05b0\u05c2\u05e8\u05b8\u05d0\u05b5\u05dc \u05e0\u05b4\u05db\u05b0\u05e0\u05b8\u05e1\u05b4\u05d9\u05df \u05dc\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05ea\u05b5\u05bc\u05d9 \u05db\u05b0\u05e0\u05b5\u05e1\u05b4\u05d9\u05bc\u05d5\u05b9\u05ea \u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05ea\u05b5\u05bc\u05d9 \u05de\u05b4\u05d3\u05b0\u05e8\u05b8\u05e9\u05c1\u05d5\u05b9\u05ea, \u05d5\u05b0\u05e2\u05d5\u05b9\u05e0\u05b4\u05d9\u05df \u05f4\u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b6\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05d4\u05b7\u05d2\u05b8\u05bc\u05d3\u05d5\u05b9\u05dc \u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05d5\u05b9\u05e8\u05b8\u05da\u05b0\u05f4, \u05d4\u05b7\u05e7\u05b8\u05bc\u05d3\u05d5\u05b9\u05e9\u05c1 \u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e8\u05d5\u05bc\u05da\u05b0 \u05d4\u05d5\u05bc\u05d0 \u05de\u05b0\u05e0\u05b7\u05e2\u05b2\u05e0\u05b5\u05e2\u05b7 \u05e8\u05b9\u05d0\u05e9\u05c1\u05d5\u05b9 \u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05de\u05b5\u05e8: \u05d0\u05b7\u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05e8\u05b5\u05d9 \u05d4\u05b7\u05de\u05b6\u05bc\u05dc\u05b6\u05da\u05b0 \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05de\u05b0\u05bc\u05e7\u05b7\u05dc\u05b0\u05bc\u05e1\u05b4\u05d9\u05df \u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05ea\u05d5\u05b9 \u05d1\u05b0\u05bc\u05d1\u05b5\u05d9\u05ea\u05d5\u05b9 \u05db\u05b8\u05bc\u05da\u05b0! \u05de\u05b7\u05d4 \u05dc\u05bc\u05d5\u05b9 \u05dc\u05b8\u05d0\u05b8\u05d1 \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05d4\u05b4\u05d2\u05b0\u05dc\u05b8\u05d4 \u05d0\u05b6\u05ea \u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e0\u05b8\u05d9\u05d5, \u05d5\u05b0\u05d0\u05d5\u05b9\u05d9 \u05dc\u05b8\u05d4\u05b6\u05dd \u05dc\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e0\u05b4\u05d9\u05dd \u05e9\u05b6\u05c1\u05d2\u05b8\u05bc\u05dc\u05d5\u05bc \u05de\u05b5\u05e2\u05b7\u05dc \u05e9\u05c1\u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05d7\u05b7\u05df \u05d0\u05b2\u05d1\u05b4\u05d9\u05d4\u05b6\u05dd!<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong>And<\/em><\/strong> after this Elijah said to me: What voice did you hear in that ruin?<\/strong> <\/em><\/p>\n

I responded: I heard a Heavenly voice,<\/em><\/strong> like an echo of that roar of the Holy One, Blessed be He (Maharsha), cooing like a dove and saying: Woe to the children, due to whose sins I destroyed My house, burned My Temple, and exiled them among the nations.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

and I heard a heavenly voice…<\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>And<\/em><\/strong> Elijah said to me:<\/strong> By your life and by your head, not only<\/strong> did that voice cry out in that moment, but it cries out three times each and every day. Moreover,<\/strong> any time that God\u2019s greatness is evoked, such as when Israel enters synagogues and study halls and answers<\/strong> in the kaddish prayer,<\/em>\u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b6\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05d4\u05b7\u05d2\u05b8\u05bc\u05d3\u05d5\u05b9\u05dc \u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05d5\u05b9\u05e8\u05b8\u05da\u05b0, He shakes His head and says: Happy is the king who is thus praised in his house.<\/strong> When the Temple stood, this praise was recited there, but now: How<\/strong> great is the pain of the father who exiled his children, and woe to the children who were exiled from their father\u2019s table<\/strong>.<\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/em>5 – We learnt the \u05ea\u05d5\u05e1\u05e4\u05d5\u05ea about the two ways of understanding the meaning of:<\/p>\n

\"Kaddish<\/p>\n

\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b5\u05df, \u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b5\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05e8\u05b7\u05da\u05b0 \u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b7\u05dd \u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b5\u05d9 \u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b7\u05d9\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d9\u05b4\u05ea\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e8\u05b5\u05da\u05b0.<\/p>\n

Is it<\/p>\n

\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b5\u05df, \u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b5\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0. \u00a0\u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05e8\u05b7\u05da\u05b0 \u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b7\u05dd \u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b5\u05d9 \u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b7\u05d9\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d9\u05b4\u05ea\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e8\u05b5\u05da\u05b0.<\/p>\n

A period after\u00a0 \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0. Meaning that there is a pause because it splits into 2 prayers.<\/p>\n

#1-\u00a0 \u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b5\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0.- May we merit the days when Hashem\u2019s name will be read fully – time of Moshiach. (Full pronunciation of the 4 letters). Pause. This is a <\/strong>\u05d1\u05e7\u05e9\u05d4. <\/strong><\/p>\n

#2 – \u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05e8\u05b7\u05da\u05b0 \u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b7\u05dd \u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b5\u05d9 \u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b7\u05d9\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d9\u05b4\u05ea\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e8\u05b5\u05da\u05b0. That is another prayer.<\/p>\n

Or<\/p>\n

\u05d0\u05b8\u05de\u05b5\u05df, \u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b5\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05de\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05e8\u05b7\u05da\u05b0 \u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b7\u05dd \u05d5\u05bc\u05dc\u05b0\u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b5\u05d9 \u05e2\u05b8\u05dc\u05b0\u05de\u05b7\u05d9\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0 \u05d9\u05b4\u05ea\u05b0\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05e8\u05b5\u05da\u05b0<\/p>\n

No period, just one sentence. May the great name of Hashem be blessed forever. This is (not a \u05d1\u05e7\u05e9\u05d4 but)\u00a0 a praise.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

\u05de\u05d7\u05d6\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d5\u05d9\u05d8\u05e8\u05d9 \u05d4\u05dc’ \u05e9\u05d7\u05e8\u05d9\u05ea \u05d8 – 216<\/a> – see below.<\/em><\/p>\n

\"The<\/p>\n

Some commentators suggest that besides inserting a pause (according to the first explanation – \u05d9\u05b0\u05d4\u05b5\u05d0 \u05e9\u05b0\u05c1\u05de\u05b5\u05d9\u05d4\u05bc \u05e8\u05b7\u05d1\u05b8\u05bc\u05d0. Pause) there is another practical difference between the two meanings – does one need to stand during Kaddish? If it\u2019s a \u05d1\u05e7\u05e9\u05d4, then it\u2019s proper to stand.<\/p>\n

See below from Yisrolik M.<\/em><\/p>\n

6 – Spoke about the various \u05e9\u05dc\u05d7\u05df \u05e2\u05e8\u05d5\u05da type compilations, that were written from the time the \u05e9\u201d\u05e1 was completed, that acted as a \u2018guide\u2019 for the average person to follow.<\/p>\n

These concise \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea were culled from \u05e9\u201d\u05e1 and the works of the \u05d2\u05d0\u05d5\u05e0\u05d9\u05dd that followed.<\/p>\n

We have the \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea of\u00a0 \u05e8\u05d1 \u05d4\u05d0\u05d9 \u05d2\u05d0\u05d5\u05df<\/a> and others and then the \u05e8\u05de\u05d1\u201d\u05dd and finally the \u05e9\u05dc\u05d7\u05df \u05e2\u05e8\u05d5\u05da.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

[Mentioned the \u05e9\u05e2\u05e8\u05d9 \u05d3\u05d5\u05e8\u05d0<\/a> which for hundred of years before the \u05d1\u05d9\u05ea \u05d9\u05d5\u05e1\u05e3 wrote his \u05e9\u05dc\u05d7\u05df \u05e2\u05e8\u05d5\u05da was the de facto reference guide for \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea of \u05d9\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e2\u05d4]<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

One of the earliest surviving \u2018book of codes\u2019\u00a0 called \u05de\u05d7\u05d6\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d5\u05d9\u05d8\u05e8\u05d9<\/a>, which is a \u05de\u05d7\u05d6\u05d5\u05e8 that was compiled by \u05e8\u05d1\u05d9<\/a> \u05e9\u05de\u05d7\u05d4<\/a> from the town of Vitry <\/a>in France, who was one of the talmidim of Rashi.\u00a0 Here<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Also see previous Shiur<\/em><\/a>.<\/p>\n

This compilation is used as a basis for many of the Ashkenazi minhogim still practiced today.<\/p>\n

[We mentioned the non-Chabad custom not to sit in the Sukkah on \u05e9\u05de\u05d9\u05e0\u05d9 \u05e2\u05e6\u05e8\u05ea. Despite the fact that it goes against a clear \u05d2\u05de\u05e8\u05d0, they follow the \u05de\u05d7\u05d6\u05d5\u05e8 \u05d5\u05d9\u05d8\u05e8\u05d9].<\/p>\n

The first explanation above in \u05e7\u05d3\u05d9\u05e9 is mentioned in our Tosfos.<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

7 – We discussed the latter part of the Tosfos as to what the \u05e7\u05d3\u05d9\u05e9 is said in Aramaic.<\/p>\n

\"The<\/p>\n

.\"\"<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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BSD Brochos 3a (2) Menachem Av 18, 5785 08\/13\/2025 Short notes on topics discussed. 1 – We continued on the topic of \u05ea\u05d9\u05e7\u05d5\u05df \u05d7\u05e6\u05d5\u05ea. Whereas in \u05e0\u05d2\u05dc\u05d4, it is not noted as a designated time to lament the \u05d7\u05d5\u05e8\u05d1\u05df,\u00a0 in the world of \u05e0\u05e1\u05ea\u05e8 there is much written about it. As mentioned last week the … Continue reading Shiur Brochos 3a (2) – Menachem Av 18, 5785 08\/13\/2025<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-5236","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5236","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=5236"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5236\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5369,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5236\/revisions\/5369"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=5236"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=5236"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.shiurpoints.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=5236"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}