Shiur Sukkah 21b 06/01/21

BS’D 

Suka 21b

Sivan 21, 5781 / June 1st, 2021

1- We reviewed the argument between Reb Yehuda and the Chachomim concerning if a Sukkah can be be קבע. Meaning a permanent structure. 

Here 

Here  

2- We came across the famous saying:

 אפי’ שיחת תלמידי חכמים צריכה לימוד

Reclaiming the Dignity of the Rabbinate: What in the World Happened, and What Can Be Done? - Jewish Action

3- Discussed the life of Reb Yaakov Yosef Katz, the senior תלמיד of the בעל שם טוב. The sign that he received from the בעש”ט  that would precede his passing. 

[Related the old Jewish quip about the peasant that was asked by the Rov as to why he is dancing on Simchas Torah when he has not learned all year. 

The peasant’s response: 

Former Chief Rabbinate official indicted for bribery - Israel National News

On Yom Kippur I said על חטא שחטאנו לפניך בכפת שוחד, (sin of accepting bribes). Well,  it obviously didn’t refer to me personally since I do not sit on Din Torahs…… But I said it anyway since ‘we’re all one and in it together’, so I’m dancing on Simchas Torah as well…….]

4- One of Reb Yaakov Yosef’s books is the Toldos Yakov Yosef.

See here. It was the first ספר  on Chassidus ever published. 

תולדות יעקב יוסף - בראשית שמות ויקרא - יעקב יוסף בן צבי הירש הכהן מפולנאה

 

 

Shul in Pollonoye

Story of the נודע ביהודה that opposed חסידות and placed this ספר under the foot of his table!

Leg of a wobbly table supported by a book Stock Photo - Alamy

When נודע ביהודה met once a תלמיד of Reb Yaakov Yosef he inquired about the character of his teacher. The student replied: My master was so humble that if you placed him under the table he would also take it in stride…….

5- In the תולדות יעקב יוסף, he quotes a ‘quip’ he once heard about the above saying 

אפי’ שיחת תלמידי חכמים צריכה לימוד

Translation:

I heard in the name of a great person somewhat figuratively, on our Gemara here:  “שיחת חולין של תלמידי חכמים צריכין לימוד- the mundane Sicha or speech, of a Talmid Chochom require study”.

From the mundane words of this person (it is indicative that) he is a only a Talmid Chochom, (not a חכם per se) and he still requires study from others to become a Chochom.

 4- We moved on to the next Mishna and began to discuss the issue of placing the סכך upon metal or cement. 

To be continued next week bl”n. 

 

 

image.png

 

 

Shiur Sukkah 21a-b 05/25/21

BS’D 

Sukkah 21a-b

Sivan 14, 5781

May 25, 2021

1- We reviewed the Gemara of last shiur concerning the extraordinary measures enacted in the preparation of the ashes of the פרה אדומה.

Inner Courtyard Of The Tower Of David In Jerusalem Israel Stock Photo - Download Image Now - iStock 

Courtyards were built in Jerusalem over rock, and beneath them there was a hollow which served as a protection against a grave in the depths. And they used to bring there pregnant women, and there they gave birth to their children and there they raised them. And they brought oxen, upon whose backs were placed doors, and the children sat upon them with stone cups in their hands. When they reached the Shiloah spring they got down and filled the cups with water and then they ascended and sat again on the doors. Rabbi Yose said: each child used to let down his cup and fill it from his place

Shiloah Pool: Because this people has rejected the waters of Shiloah that flow gently, And melts with fear at the display o… | Kings of israel, Isaiah 8, Rise above

As a result of the fierce argument with the צדוקים, the Kohen who prepared the ashes was intentionally made טמא! This was to show that the מסורה  of the חכמים was the true one, contrary to the opinion of the צדוקים. 

To counter this leniency, many practices were enacted to publicize that the process is very serious and needs to be made in a way that will preclude any chance that any טומאה was encountered. 

One of them was the camping out of the children in a secluded area until the next פרה אדומה  was processed. 

Family Camping in Jerusalem - Fun In Jerusalem

 

2- We discussed that these extreme measures (above and also the building of a suspended ramp from the  הר הבית to the הר המשחה see פרה  3, 6 ) caused others to go even more extreme to the point of Reb Akiva and Reb Yosi said  “enough – you are causing the צדוקים to mock you!”

Wilson's Arch - Madain Project (en)

 

3- Further along the Gemara brings a ברייתא concerning what the above Mishna says:

And they brought oxen, upon whose backs were placed doors, and the children sat upon them with stone cups in their hands.

 Reb Yehuda says that the children sat right on the oxen- not on top of the doors placed on the oxen. The reason being that a child on a ox will be afraid and not lean over the ox or stick his foot or hand over the side. 

If, however, he is sitting on a wide door, then “a child is restless” and (not being afraid of falling off) will play around and stick his hand out. 

4- We mentioned the story related by Reb Yoel Kahn of the young Lubavitcher  בחורים  in Tel Aviv, in the early 40s, who talked a newcomer בחור into performing תיקון חצות  by conning him that it was מנהג חב”ד and the resulting rebuke they received from their מנהל Reb  חיים שאול ברוק

In passing we spoke about Reb Chaim Shaul’s Brook quip about the nature of בחורים.

Rabbi Yoel Kahn Sandek at Bris

There is a old Yiddish saying אִם לֹא יוֹעִיל, לֹא יַזִּיק . Meaning there’s nothing to lose; even if doesn’t help, it can’t do any harm. 

Reb Chaim Shaul would reverse the saying and say:  אם לא יזיק, לא יועיל. If a בחור does not have at least a mild wild side to him,   ( שטיפען )   he’s not a מזיק, then לא יועיל, when he grows up he will not amount to much……

5- Our Gemara says concerning a bed that since its primary purpose is for sleeping on the top, the underside of the bed cannot be considered an אהל. 

The Gemara continues to ask that it is quite normal for people to place their shoes or sandals under the bed.

Creepy shoes under your bed Wood Print by Don Valentine

We discussed the prohibition of placing food or drinks under a bed. 

Bed Snack Drawer #snack #drawer | Room inspiration bedroom, Cute room decor, Room ideas bedroom

See here from the Alter Rebbe in his שלחן ערוך 

6- We corrected something mentioned in the last shiur concerning the  ספר רוקח   written by Reb Elozor of גרמיזא

The taking 3 steps when finishing שמונה עשרה is mentioned in the Gemara.

 תלמוד בבלי מסכת יומא דף נג עמוד ב

אמר רבי אלכסנדרי אמר רבי יהושע בן לוי: המתפלל צריך שיפסיע שלש פסיעות לאחוריו, ואחר כך יתן שלום. אמר ליה רב מרדכי: כיון שפסע שלש פסיעות לאחוריו – התם איבעיא ליה למיקם, משל לתלמיד הנפטר מרבו, אם חוזר לאלתר – דומה לכלב ששב על קיאו. 

However the taking 3 steps before שמונה עשרה is from the תקנות of the רוקח. The reason as the Alter Rebbe writes is to ‘make an approach’ prior to davning. 

We tried to figure out as to why before davening we take three steps backwards to then take three steps forward. 

Physical Movement in Jewish Prayer | My Jewish Learning

If one is standing in from of a wall or a table it makes sense. But if one standing in middle of the shul….why not just take three step forward? 

Good question. 

When completing שמונה עשרה, we take three steps back, as above Gemara, as a sign of respect when departing from the presence of a King. 

One needs to stay there a bit to complete this show of respect and then go back to his  original position. 

Why? To be continued. 

 

Shiur Sukkah 21a 5/11/21

S’D 

Sukkah 21a

Iyar 29, 5781

May 11, 2021

1- We continued with the topic of sleeping under a bed in a Sukkah. 

2- The Halachos of אהל  in regards to טומאה. What is considered an אהל? 

Giant Event Tent | CoolTent Club

The opinion of Reb Yehuda that only an אהל that was constructed by a human for the purpose of covering or sheltering is considered an אהל. Caves, crevices and other overhangs that were created by nature are not considered an אהל in regards to טומאה.

A look of world's largest cave chamber in Guizhou(10/12)

3- Our Gemore introduces a fascinating occurrence that was practiced when preparing the פרה אדומה to create the ashes used for the purification of a טמא מת. 

Jewish activists launch crowdfunding appeal to breed perfect red heifer | Israel | The Guardian

Being that the ashes/water mixture needed to be 100% טהור many precautions were taken to ensure this טהור state. 

One, (the ultimate quarantine), was the following, as the Mishna (3, 2) in פרה describes: 

חֲצֵרוֹת הָיוּ בִירוּשָׁלַיִם בְּנוּיוֹת עַל גַּבֵּי סֶלַע וְתַחְתֵּיהֶם חָלוּל, מִפְּנֵי קֶבֶר הַתְּהוֹם. וּמְבִיאִים נָשִׁים עֻבָּרוֹת וְיוֹלְדוֹת שָׁם וּמְגַדְּלוֹת שָׁם אֶת בְּנֵיהֶן. וּמְבִיאִים שְׁוָרִים וְעַל גַּבֵּיהֶן דְּלָתוֹת, וְתִינוֹקוֹת יוֹשְׁבִין עַל גַּבֵּיהֶן וְכוֹסוֹת שֶׁל אֶבֶן בְּיָדָם. הִגִּיעוּ לַשִּׁלּוֹחַ, יָרְדוּ וּמִלְאוּם, וְעָלוּ וְיָשְׁבוּ עַל גַּבֵּיהֶן. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר, מִמְּקוֹמוֹ הָיָה מְשַׁלְשֵׁל וּמְמַלֵּא: 

Courtyards were built in Jerusalem over rock, and beneath them there was a hollow which served as a protection against a grave in the depths. And they used to bring there pregnant women, and there they gave birth to their children and there they raised them. And they brought oxen, upon whose backs were placed doors, and the children sat upon them with stone cups in their hands. When they reached the Shiloah spring they got down and filled the cups with water and then they ascended and sat again on the doors. Rabbi Yose said: each child used to let down his cup and fill it from his place.

4- We discussed at length this procedure and its purpose. 

The ערוך לנר writes that this quarantine was a constant occurrence since they never knew when the next rare פרה אדומה would be found.

More on this in the next shiur BL”N 

5- We touched upon the wording “And they used to bring there pregnant women, and there they gave birth to their children and there they raised them

What about if this pregnant woman prior to being secluded in this ‘sterile’ area entered a house that had a מת there? Would not the fetus become טמא? 

Eleazar of Worms Eleazar of Worms Shaar haSod haYihud wehaEmunah pp 147148

We discussed the famous ruling of the ספר רוקח   written by Reb Elazar of גרמיזא, or (as it is called today)  Worms in Germany. 

Secrets of Raziel Commentary on The Book of Formation by Eleazar of Worms for sale online | eBay

He writes that a wife of a Kohen need not be careful to enter a house that has a non living body or attend a funeral.

We are not concerned that the fetus will become טמא because of a ספק ספיקא. The odds are against it being born a  living male Kohen. Either because it may be a girl or a still born. The ש”ך  brings this הלכה in Yore Deah. 381, 1. 

It would seem from the above, that today, if a wife of a Kohen, via an ultrasound procedure, has ascertained that she will be giving birth to a healthy boy, it would be indeed problematic for her to enter a funeral home. 

Fetal ultrasound - Mayo Clinic

We mentioned the מגן אברהם in 343 that takes issue with this entire train of thought. He says that even if we are sure that she will give birth to boy there is no טואה passed on to him since it is טומאה בלועה. 

More on this in the future. 

6- Speaking of Reb Elazar of גרמיזא, we discussed his tragic life, some of his ספרים and the hundreds of מנהגים for which he is the source. 

One of his famous works is on the topic of תשובה. The Alter Rebbe mentioned this in אגרת התשובה פרק א’. 

ומ”ש בספרי המוסר ובראשם ספר הרוקח וס’ חסידים הרבה תעניות וסיגופים לעובר על כריתות ומיתות ב”ד וכן למוציא זרע לבטלה שחייב מיתה בידי שמים כמ”ש בתורה גבי ער ואונן ודינו כחייבי כריתות לענין זה. היינו כדי לינצל מעונש יסורי’ של מעלה ח”ו. וגם כדי לזרז ולמהר גמר כפרת נפשו. וגם אולי אינו שב אל ה’ בכל לבו ונפשו מאהבה כ”א מיראה:

Here he is mentioned in the Chabad Machzor

7- We also spoke about the illustrious and tragic history of Jews in Worms. 

8- The history of the handwritten illustrated Worms Machzor and how it survived WWII. 

See here for some pages of this famous מחזור. 

Worms Mahzor « Facsimile edition

Worms Mahzor « Facsimile edition

 

 9- We ran out of time and IY”h will discuss this book after Yom Tov. 

Wishing all קבלת התורה בשמחה ובפנימיות

 

Shiur Sukkah 20a-b 05/04/21

BS’D 

Sukkah 20a-b

Iyar 22, 5781. May 4, 2021

1- We left off with the הריני כפרת משכבו which Reish Lakish said about Reb Chiya. 

2- Reb Yaakov Emdin (printed at the end of the Gemara) makes note that this expression is generally only used for the first 12 months of the passing of a parent or teacher.

Nevertheless, Reish Lakish, out of respect, said this about Reb Chiya despite the many generation that passed since the פטירה of Reb Chiya. 

As Berel M, (of the famous M Family) phrased it  as “a term of endearment”. 

3 –  We mentioned the Maharsham (1, 215) and his question about a Kohen entering a museum that displays mummies. The question is in regards to טומאת אהל.  See below.

Mystery of the Mummy | RegenAxe

Perhaps the glass box that sits on top on the mummy is an object that will not allow the טומאה to escape into the museum. 

DIY Mummy Jars | POPSUGAR Smart Living

Mummys in Glass

[There is much discussion if a גוי is מטמא טומאת אהל. The Rambam rules that טומאת אהל does not apply. However the שולחן ערוך, YD 372,  2, seems to say that one should be careful. See ש”ך there] 

 Our Gemore’s discussion if a מחצלת  that only serves as a cover over a vat of beer is considered a כלי come into play. 

Death on Display at the Guanuajuato Mummy Museum | Sand In My Suitcase

4- We moved onto the next Mishna. Sleeping under a bed in a Suka. 

One who sleeps beneath the bed in the sukkah did not fulfill his obligation, because the bed constitutes a tent that serves as a barrier between him and the roofing of the sukkah. Rabbi Yehuda said: It was our custom that we would sleep beneath the bed before the Elders and they did not say anything to us to the effect that we are not fulfilling our obligation. Apparently, the halakhic status of the bed is not like that of a tent and it does not prevent fulfillment of the mitzvah.  Rabbi Shimon said, contrary to the opinion of Rabbi Yehuda: There was an incident involving Tavi, the Canaanite slave of Rabban Gamliel, who was sleeping beneath the bed, and Rabban Gamliel lightheartedly said to the Elders: Did you see my slave Tavi, who is a Torah scholar and knows that slaves are exempt from the mitzvah of sukkah? Since it is a positive, time-bound mitzvot, Canaanite slaves, whose status with regard to this halakhic category is like that of women, are exempt from the obligation to fulfill the mitzvah of sukka. Therefore, he sleeps under the bed. Rabbi Shimon continued: And by the way, as Rabban Gamliel was not issuing a halakhic ruling, we learned that one who sleeps beneath the bed did not fulfill his obligation.

Topics discussed:

A – What’s the issue of sleeping under a bed? Is one not in the Sukka? Rashi and Rif. 

B – Tevi the slave who slept under the bed. His status in Halacha. Obligations of Mitzvos as a woman. 

C- Tosfos – from Yerushalmi. He slipped under the bed to allow for more space to the scholars, but remained in the Sukkah because he wanted to hear their conversation.

D – So he was trying to learn Torah? But a  master is prohibited to teach a slave Torah. See here.

Perhaps the Mitzvos that he is obligated to perform he is allowed (or obligated) to study.

 

Mini Episode: Hiding Under the Bed - Jewish Public Media

E- When using the Sukkah did he make a ברכה.

F – The term used in the Mishna is One who sleeps beneath the bed in the sukkah. Why not eats or drinks? A person can survive by not eating in the Sukkah. (he can eat fruit for 7 days). So in theory, besides for the first night, one can be outside of the Sukkah for the full seven days. But a human will fall asleep within 3 days. So he must be in the Sukkah to sleep.

 

To be continued. 

 

Shiur Sukkah 19b-20a 04/27/21

BS’D 

Suka 19b – 20a

Iyar 15, 5781. April 27, 2021

1- We continued the Sugya of מחצלת. 

The basis is as follows:

If it was made to use as a mat, it turns it into a כלי and מקבל טומאה. That  makes it not Kosher Schach. 

If it is made for a shade, wallpaper, or a cover, it does not become a כלי and therefore Kosher to use as Schach. 

Women weawing reed mattress, Erciyes Turkey Stock Photo - Alamy

2- The way Tosfos Rid learns our Mishna and Gemara, the designation is established by the purchaser. Since the manufacturer makes it generic, or neutral, it is up to the purchaser to decide what he bought for. Mat or סכך. 

However, if he was ‘blank’ or undecided at the time of purchase, that is the מחלוקת between the חכמים who follow the size, and Reb Eliezer who does not. 

BD11-702 - Forward & Reverse Decal - Vintage Golf Cart Parts Inc.

3- The way the Rosh learns the Gemara: The designation is decided by the מנהג, meaning what the majority of people in a particular local use these מחצלאות for.  If the common use of these מחצלות  are used as mats, then even if one makes one specifically for סכך, it would be invalid since people would see one use it and not know that he created one specifically for סכך. 

Mino (straw cape) - Wikipedia

If there is no מנהג, we follow the size. If it’s just a bit larger than the height of a person then we assume that it was made for a mat. However, if it large, then we can assume that it was made for a cover and thus Kosher for סכך. 

The Halacha is like the Rosh. We discussed the need for a Hechsher on these מחצלות. 

See here from the OK. 

Interesting idea by Rabbi Don Yoel Levy OBM. 

In addition, while visiting the factory, I had the owner write up a sign, in Chinese, (to be hung up in the factory) stating that the mats being produced now are made for shade and religious purposes. To ensure that the sign stated exactly what I requested, I took a copy of the sign and showed it to various Chinese-speaking people, from hotel personnel to airline passengers on the plane ride back from the facility, and asked them to please translate the sign. It was indeed written as I requested.

3- We came across an interesting expression in our Gemara. 

And Reish Lakish follows his line of reasoning stated elsewhere, as Reish Lakish said: I am the atonement for Rabbi Ḥiyya and his sons, as initially, when some of the Torah laws were forgotten from the Jewish people in Eretz Yisrael, Ezra ascended from Babylonia and reestablished the forgotten laws. Parts of the Torah were again forgotten in Eretz Yisrael, and Hillel the Babylonian ascended and reestablished the forgotten sections. When parts of the Torah were again forgotten in Eretz Yisrael, Rabbi Ḥiyya and his sons ascended and reestablished the forgotten sections. This expression of deference toward Rabbi Ḥiyya introduces the halakha that Reish Lakish is citing in his name. And so said Rabbi Ḥiyya and his sons: Rabbi Dosa and the Rabbis did not disagree concerning the soft mats of Usha,

We will Bl”n discuss this piece next week. What we managed to talk about was what Reish Lokesh added to the name of Reb Chiya when mentioning him.

  I am the atonement for Rabbi Ḥiyya and his sons

What is the meaning of this expression? The commentaries explain as follows: Every human being, even the most greatest of  צדיקים must ‘pass thru the ‘גיהנום’ ! Whatever that means, we know that there it is associated with a certain measure of pain prior to entering גן עדן. 

Therefore, a descendant accepts this pain/atonement as a substitute for his parents. 

עלי יבוא כל רע הראוי לבוא על נפשו – רש”י קידושין לא, ב

That is the Halachah in שלחן ערוך.  that one needs to say this for 12 months after one’s parents passed away.  YD 249 9.

See the Taz there (9)  why קדיש said for 11 months and  הריני כפרת משכבו is said or written for a full year. 

4- We discussed the weird question asked to the Berszhaner Rov, Reb Sholom Mordechai  Schwadron

R' Shalom Mordechai Szwadron-Schwadron (Katz), " The Maharsham" (1835 - 1911) - Genealogy

Can someone sell one’s עבירות? Is such a sale valid? 

One of the sources he quotes is our Gemara where by saying הריני כפרת משכבו one accepts and transfers the pain that was designated to a parent ontu oneself. 

Shut Maharsham, fifth section—first edition, Siani 1926, bound with an additional book.

See here. 151. 

We discussed Chodosh in modern times,  – the story of the Baal Shem Tov who said that for the Bach–  R’ Yoel Sirks, father in law of the Taz – they cooled Gehinnom forty days:

בעל שם טוב על התורה אמור ו

ולחם וקלי וכרמל לא תאכלו עד עצם היום הזה וגו’. הבעל שם טוב שאל בחלומו על חדש בזמן הזה, איך הדין, וענו אותו, שלאחר פטירת הב”ח ציננו את הגיהנם ארבעים יום, מחמת שהיה צריך זה לכבוד הב”ח, ובבוקר עמד הבעש”ט זלה”ה ושלח להביא שכר מן החדש ושתהו, ואמר כדאי הב”ח שמתיר כדי לסמוך עליו:
(זכרון טוב די”ב ע”ד).

To be continued Bl”n. 

Shiur Sukkah 19b 04/20/21

BS’D 

Suka 19b

Iyar 8, 5781. April 20, 2021

1- Sukkah walls and schach. Can they be one continuous piece? Like leaning a row of tall bamboo sticks against a wall thereby creating a ‘wall and schach’. Or perhaps there needs to be a demarcation line showing where the wall ends and the schach begins. 

Survival Shelter High Resolution Stock Photography and Images - Alamy

We encountered an interesting Mishna which throws some light on a topic discussed by many.

Who wrote or compiled the Mishnayos?

The Mishna, when discussing the concept of whether the schach and the walls of a Sukkah need to be defined as two separate entities states the opinion of Reb Eliezer (saying such a Sukkah is פסול) and the Chachamim (saying that such a Sukkah is כשר). 

It would follow that the Halachah is for such a Sukkah to be כשר since that is the opinion of the חכמים – the majority.

Majority vs Minority – The Smoking Glass Hour

However, the Gemara quotes an opposite view, based upon a ברייתא, that the opinions are reversed, with the Chachamim saying that such  a Sukkah is פסול and Eliezer saying that such a Sukkah is כשר. 

The two opinions, as stated in our Mishna, with the majority saying it’s כשר, are based upon the singular  מסורה of Reb Nosson. 

In Halacha however, we follow the ברייתא, that says the majority opinion is that such a Sukkah is פסול , opposite to what we see in our Mishna. 

2- So here is the question: Why do we have in our Mishnayos the two opinions as they were stated by Reb Nosson who is a single/minority view? 

Why did Rebbi write or insert such a version of this מחלוקת , knowing that in reality the opinions are totally reversed? 

3- This touches upon the topic mentioned above. 

Did Rebbi actually write all the Mishnayos? 

Or perhaps the bulk of the Mishnayos existed already and Rebbi’s role was the compiling and organizing them all into a structured format by creating six סדרים and 60  מסכתות, chapters and individual Mishnos?

This is a much discussed topic with proofs and counter proofs to each side.

4- One example is the Rashi, BM 33b. From Sefaria 

Since from the time of the disciples of Shammai and Hillel, three generations before him [meaning Rebbi], there were great disputes regarding the meanings of the Torah and there arose the possibility of there being two Torahs amongst Israel, due to the oppression of the kingdom [Rome] and the evil decrees passed against Israel. 

Because of these [troubles] they [the scholars of Israel] were unable to clarify the differing opinions and settle them, until [came] the time of Rebbi. 

Then did the Lord give favor unto Rebbi in the eyes of the Roman emperor, Antoninus, and the troubles subsided, and Rebbi was able to gather all of the scholars of the Land of Israel to him [in Beit She’arim and Tzippori]. 

Antoninus Pius - Wikipedia

Emperor Anotninus

(Though Rebbi could have had a friendship with a different Antoninus)

Until his [Rebbi’s] days, there were no established tractates [of the Oral Law] but rather every student studied and reviewed lectures that he heard from the great men and he ascribed to them these teachings-“this halachah heard from this and this scholar.” 

משנה – ויקיפדיה

Now, when they all gathered together [at Rebbi’s yeshivah], each of the scholars repeated what he had learned and together they worked to clarify the reasons behind disparate opinions and they settled as to which opinion was to be deemed correct. 

And then they arranged these opinions and decisions into tractates: the laws of torts by themselves, the laws of levirate marriages by themselves, the laws of the Temple service by themselves, [etc.]. 

ששה סדרי משנה – בית הספר לתלמוד

And they quoted the opinions and decisions of many scholars anonymously, for Rebbi agreed with their decisions and therefore quoted them anonymously in order to indicate that so is the halacha.

5- We discussed if our Mishna, stating the opinion of a single person, Reb Nosson, as to the opinions of Reb Eliezer and the Chachamim, is proof that this Mishna was not composed by Rebbi. For surely he would have not written it the way we have it. 

If Rebbi was only an editor, then it makes sense. For some reason he decided to ‘paste’ this singular opinion into the corpus of the Mishnayos despite him knowing that most disagreed with Reb Nosson. 

6- Another proof we discussed is the famous story of the families that produced the לחם הפנים and the קטורת for the Beis Hamikdash. 

יאודה אבטינס (@Avtinas) | Twitter

By not divulging the secret ingredients and processes  to produce these items to others, they were ‘mentioned to shame’ in the Mishna in Yuma 38a and  Yerushalmi Shekalim. 13a, 14b. 

However, Reb Akiva relates 2 heartbreaking stories concerning the Avtinas family and their refusal to divulge the process of creating the קטורת. 

Basic Herb Garden | LoveToKnow

Rabbi Akiva said: One time Rabbi Yishmael ben Loga related to me: One time I and one of the descendants of the House of Avtinas went out to the field to collect herbs, and I saw that he laughed and he cried. I said to him: Why did you cry? He said to me: I was reminded of the honor of my forefathers, how important they were in the Temple. I said to him: And why did you laugh? He said to me: The Holy One, Blessed be He, is going to restore it to us in the future and we will be honored again. I said to him: And why are you reminded of this now? He said to me: The smoke-raising herb is before me, here in the field, reminding me of the past. I said to him: Show it to me; which one is it? He said to me: We are bound by oath not to show it to any person other than the members of our family.

Hemp paper scroll stock photo. Image of macro, ages, middle - 14029488

Rabbi Yocḥanan ben Nuri said: One time I found an old man who had in his hand a scroll with the location and formula for blending of spices. I said to him: Where are you from? What is your ancestry? He said to me: I am from the House of Avtinas. I asked him: And what is in your hand? He said to me: A scroll of spices. I said to him: Show it to me. He said to me: As long as the House of Avtinas, my forefathers, was extant, they would not pass it on to anyone. And now, here it is; and be careful with it not to give it to anyone. 

Here is the interesting conclusion Reb Akiva arrived at: 

And when I came and related my statement before Rabbi Akiva, he said to me: And now that they have surrendered the scroll to worthy recipients since they are unable to maintain its sanctity, it is prohibited to mention them unfavorably, as even their earlier reticence was apparently for the glory of God.

And yet, our Mishna still says that the house of Avtinas is always mentioned not favorably

As above, some say that this is another proof that Rebbi placed into the Mishnayos original texts that were received from previous generations without the correction of later generations. 

On the other hand, as we spoke at the shiur, the other school of thought has an answer to this last proof. 

7- We began the Mishna that discusses using mats מחצלת for סכך.  

Pin on deck ideas

Shiur Sukkah 19a 04/13/2021

BSD

Sukkah 19a

Iyar 1, 5781. April 13, 2021

Some brief notes:

1- A cryptic Beraisa. 

“Schach that extends outside the Sukkah is considered as part of the Sukkah”

Amazon.com: Sieger Sukkah Snap Button Sukkah Kit (10' x 20'): Sports & Outdoors

The Beraisa is trying to teach that an area that one would think is not a proper Sukkah is indeed a kosher Sukkah area. 

The four explanations:

A- A back to back Sukkah. 

B- A Suka where two of the opposite walls are uneven. 

Building the Sukkah - Halachipedia

C- A Sukkah that a majority has shade more than sunlight. A small portion has more sunlight than shade. 

The Succah of Succot/Succos | LNN: Levy News Network

 

D- A small 7 x 7 Suka covered by 4 טפחים of kosher Schach and the balance non-kosher Schach. 

Hamster in a cardboard box sukkah!

2- Other topics discussed concerning a large proper Sukkah.

Sitting under an area that has little or no Schach at all.

Sitting under an area that has פסול Shcach.

3- The Mishna concerning a Sukkah that just has walls or just Schach. Example, branches leaning against a wall. The area under these branches is sizable and enough to be considered a proper Suka. 

How to Build a Backyard Teepee (for Free!) - Gardens That Matter

The issue is whether a Sukkah needs to have defined walls and defined Schach. One item cannot serve both purposes. 

11 Incredible Sukkot You'll Love | Reform Judaism

A Governor Cuomo Sukkah

To be continued. 

 

 

 

 

Pesach 5781 -2021 03/16/2021

בס”ד 

Pesach 5781 -2021

to all חג כשר ושמח

חג פסח כשר ושמח

See the Gemara below. 

Topic: The story with the Bnei Beseira and Hillel – Bringing a Korbon Pesach on Shabbos

1Who were the Bnei Beseira? 

Maharsha. Reb Yehuda, Reb Shimon Reb Eliezer. 

2-  Greatness of the בני בתירה that relinquished their positions. 

How to know when it's time to resign - and how to leave well | Michael Page

Yerushalmi:

שלשה הניחו ב”ד בעוה”ז וירשו להם חיי עוה”ב, ואלו הן יונתן בן שאול ור’ אלעזר בן עזריה וזקני בתירא דשדין גרמא מן נשיותא ומנוני’ נשיא:  

כל מה שיאמר לי אדם לעשות אני עושה, חוץ ממה שעשו זקני בתירה לזקני (הלל), שויתרו על הנשיאות ומינו אותו לנשיא עליהם (ירושלמי כתובות ו:ג).

Rebi, who was the Nasi,  once said “Anything I am told I would do, anything except what the בני בתירא did! 

2How could they forget? 

A– Yerushalmi: 

ת”ר הלכה זו נתעלמה מבני בתירא כו’. ירושלמי אמר ר’ אבין והלא אי אפשר לשני שבועות שלא יחול ארבעה עשר בשבת ולמה נעלמה הלכה מהם כדי ליתן גדולה להילל. שלשה הניחו ב”ד בעוה”ז וירשו להם חיי עוה”ב ואלו הן יונתן בן שאול ור’ אלעזר בן עזריה וזקני בתירא דשדין גרמא מן נשיותא ומנוני’ נשיא: 

It was predestined for them to forget to bring about the leadership of Hillel.  

University of Miami Hillel

B –  Pnei Yehoshua. Meshech Chochma. They knew that it was OK to Shecht it. What was forgotten was if burning it on the Mizbeach was permitted on Shabbos or perhaps they should do it after Shabbos. 

פני יהושע פסחים סו א :  אלא דמה שנתעלמ’ מב”ב היינו לענין הקטרת פסח דנהי דשחיטתו וזריקתו דוחה שבת איכא למימר דהיינו משום דאי אפשר בענין אחר דלא לידחי לגמרי משא”כ לענין הקטרה דאפשר להקטירו בלילה במוצאי שבת. וכ”ה במשך חכמה. במדבר ט, ב. 

Korban (Offering) - Mikdash Educational Center

C – Meiri. They knew the Halacha. What they forgot was the basis and the source and reason. 

D Reb Yitzchok Elchonon Spector. 

Portrait of Rabbi Yitzchak Elchanan Spector | Kedem Auction House

Being that most Jews lived in Bavel, they were unsure if the minority in EY consisted of a רוב to make the קרבן פסח  a קרבן ציבור to override שבת. 

ספקטור שו”ת באר יצחק, חלק א סימן יד, ב

זה גופא היה הספק של בני בתירא. דהא המה היו בזמן בית שני דלא היו שם שני שבטים…וכיון דהרוב נשארו בבבל יש לדון דאין דינם כקרבן ציבור שדוחה שבת… או אפשר דעם כל זה דינם כמו קרבן ציבור דהא על כל פנים כל ישראל דבארץ ישראל המה בני חיובא, וכמו הא דהוריות (ג ע”א) דאמר רב אסי דבהוראה הלך אחר יושבי ארץ ישראל, כפי’ רש”י שם דאותן הדרים בחו”ל אינם נחשבים מן המנין…ועל זה הספק בא הלל וקפשט להו למילף בגזרה שוה

Interesting answer, but if this was the dilemma, why did it come up only in the times of Hillel? 

As ZS asks: This story occurred 300 years after they came back from Bovel and rebuilt the second Beis Hamikdosh. וצ”ע

E – They tweaked the calendar & עדים so that it never occurred before. So what happened that year? They did it in error! צל”ח. 

F- This whole story was about פסח שני . 

רבי זליג ראובן בנגיס – האנציקלופדיה היהודית

 ר’ ראובן בנגיס 

G- Rebbe –   תשל”ז. שיחות קודש 590 י”א ניסן They were always a segment of people that didn’t bring a קרבן פסח in the event it occurred on Shabbos. [Similar to many ancient different ways to perform some מצוות. – Rashi and R”T tefillin]. That year they wanted to decisively establish the final Halacha. 

What Is Lack of Clarity Costing You? - Julie Hyde Leadership

3The second קרבן פסח occurred on Shabbos! 

במדבר ט, א. א וַיְדַבֵּר יְהוָה אֶל מֹשֶׁה בְמִדְבַּר סִינַי בַּשָּׁנָה הַשֵּׁנִית לְצֵאתָם מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם בַּחֹדֶשׁ הָרִאשׁוֹן לֵאמֹר. ב וְיַעֲשׂוּ בְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶת הַפָּסַח בְּמוֹעֲדוֹ. ג בְּאַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר יוֹם בַּחֹדֶשׁ הַזֶּה בֵּין הָעֲרְבַּיִם תַּעֲשׂוּ אֹתוֹ בְּמוֹעֲדוֹ כְּכָל חֻקֹּתָיו וּכְכָל מִשְׁפָּטָיו תַּעֲשׂוּ אֹתוֹ. ד וַיְדַבֵּר מֹשֶׁה אֶל בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לַעֲשֹׂת הַפָּסַח. ה וַיַּעֲשׂוּ אֶת הַפֶּסַח בָּרִאשׁוֹן בְּאַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר יוֹם לַחֹדֶשׁ בֵּין הָעַרְבַּיִם בְּמִדְבַּר סִינָי כְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר צִוָּה יְהוָה אֶת מֹשֶׁה כֵּן עָשׂוּ בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. 

That year, Rosh Chodesh Nissan was on a Sunday. Thus, the 14th day of Nisan was Shabbos and they were told to bring the קרבן פסח despite it being Shabbos. So what was the doubt?  

A- הוראת שעה. 

Bפענח רזא. We know that it occurred Shabbos only after Hillel presented the גזירה שוה of במועדו. In other words – The Bnei Beseira were unaware that that year Erev Pesach occurred on Shabbos. It was Hillel who revealed that that year Erev Pesach occurred on Shabbos! 

C-  משאת המלך At that time there was no פסח שני! So perhaps, there was no choice but to bring it on שבת  since there would be no תשלומין.    

4- Hillel’s proof

A- Bavli – גזרה שוה וקל וחומר.

Yerushalmi -Hillel tried to use logic. Ultimately they accepted only due to his  קבלה from שמעי’ ואבטליון.  

שמעיה ואבטליון | הפרסום החרדי

Seems the בני בתירה were using logic. Hillel countered with the מסורה. 

This may explain why the בני בתירה are not counted as part of the chain of  receivers and transmitters of the מסורה. Rabbi Ariel.  

5- Question and resolution of carrying the knife 

A- Rebbe: 

Hillel’s answer: נבואה versus logic.

Symbolic Logic: Definition & Examples - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

His approach was that Yiden have an inherent DNA to get things right. He therefore said הַנַּח לָהֶן לְיִשְׂרָאֵל, אִם אֵין נְבִיאִים הֵן — בְּנֵי נְבִיאִים הֵן. 

Hillel himself was unable to ‘get’ this נבואה because his attempt to understand and explain what to do blocked this נבואה! 

תו”מ . נא. 230 ואילך. תשכ”ח-  בראשית ב. 

1- בני נביאים. כי לישראל ניתן הכח לכוון לרצה”ע. למעלה מהבנה. 

2- הנח להן דווקא. כי אצל הלל הבנתו היתה סתירה לנבואה! 

B-  Why is there no מעילה?  

Bavli – מקדש in the עזרה. 

Yerushalmi – No מעילה if it’s for the purpose of the קרבן. 

Parenthetically, this explains the following פסוקים 

בראשית ו, כב  וַיִּקַּח אַבְרָהָם אֶת עֲצֵי הָעֹלָה וַיָּשֶׂם עַל יִצְחָק בְּנוֹ וַיִּקַּח בְּיָדוֹ אֶת הָאֵשׁ וְאֶת הַמַּאֲכֶלֶת וַיֵּלְכוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְדָּו. ז וַיֹּאמֶר יִצְחָק אֶל אַבְרָהָם אָבִיו וַיֹּאמֶר אָבִי וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֶּנִּי בְנִי וַיֹּאמֶר הִנֵּה הָאֵשׁ וְהָעֵצִים וְאַיֵּה הַשֶּׂה לְעֹלָה. ח וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָהָם אֱלֹהִים יִרְאֶה לּוֹ הַשֶּׂה לְעֹלָה בְּנִי וַיֵּלְכוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם יַחְדָּו.

‘Where is the korbon’? 

Why did Yitztchok  only ask his father now? Answer: He wondered if he was a Korbon how could his father place the wood on him to carry…

6- קרבן פסח

לקו”ש – יח, 104. קרבן יחיד וציבור. 


חג של גאולה: פסח כשר ושמח! - אור חיה LIVE

פסחים סו,א.

ְּתָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ נִתְעַלְּמָה מִבְּנֵי בְתִירָא. פַּעַם אַחַת חָל אַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר לִהְיוֹת בְּשַׁבָּת, שָׁכְחוּ וְלֹא יָדְעוּ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לאו.

GEMARA: The Sages taught a baraita with regard to the basic halakha governing the eve of Passover that occurs on Shabbat: This law was forgotten by the sons of Beteira, who were the leaders of their generation. The fourteenth of Nisan once occurred on Shabbat, and they forgot and did not know whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not.

. אָמְרוּ: כְּלוּם יֵשׁ אָדָם שֶׁיּוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמְרוּ לָהֶם: אָדָם אֶחָד יֵשׁ שֶׁעָלָה מִבָּבֶל וְהִלֵּל הַבַּבְלִי שְׁמוֹ, שֶׁשִּׁימֵּשׁ שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן, וְיוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו. שָׁלְחוּ וְקָרְאוּ לוֹ,

They said: Is there any person who knows whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not? They said to them: There is a certain man in Jerusalem who came up from Babylonia, and Hillel the Babylonian is his name. At one point, he served the two most eminent scholars of the generation, Shemaya and Avtalyon, and he certainly knows whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not. The sons of Beteira sent messengers and called for him.

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: כְּלוּם אַתָּה יוֹדֵעַ אִם הַפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמַר לָהֶם: וְכִי פֶּסַח אֶחָד יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת? וַהֲלֹא הַרְבֵּה יוֹתֵר מִמָּאתַיִם פְּסָחִים יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחִין אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת

They said to him: Do you know whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not? He said to them: Have we but one Pesach lamb during the year that overrides Shabbat? Do we not have many more than two hundred Pesach lambs, i.e., sacrifices, during the year that override Shabbat?

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: מִנַּיִן לְךָ? אָמַר לָהֶם: נֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּפֶּסַח, וְנֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּתָּמִיד: מָה ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּתָּמִיד דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, אַף ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

They said to him: From where do you know this? He said to them: “Its appointed time” is stated with regard to the Pesach lamb and “its appointed time” is also stated with regard to the daily offering, for the verse says: “Command the children of Israel and say to them, My offering, the provision of My sacrifice made with fire, for a sweet savor to Me, shall you observe to offer Me at its appointed time” (Numbers 28:2). From here we learn that the daily offering is brought even on Shabbat. Thus, the daily morning and afternoon offerings are brought on more than fifty Shabbatot over the course of the year, and two sheep are offered every Shabbat as additional offerings, for a total of more than two hundred sacrifices a year that override Shabbat. Just as the expression “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the daily offering, indicates that it overrides Shabbat, so too “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the Pesach lamb, indicates that it overrides Shabbat.

וְעוֹד, קַל וָחוֹמֶר הוּא: וּמָה תָּמִיד שֶׁאֵין עָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, פֶּסַח שֶׁעָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

And furthermore, it is a קל וחומר  inference: If the daily offering, the neglect of which is not punishable by karet, overrides Shabbat, is it not right that the Pesach lamb, the neglect of which is punishable by karet, should override Shabbat?

מִיָּד הוֹשִׁיבוּהוּ בָּרֹאשׁ, וּמִינּוּהוּ נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיהֶם, וְהָיָה דּוֹרֵשׁ כׇּל הַיּוֹם כּוּלּוֹ בְּהִלְכוֹת הַפֶּסַח. הִתְחִיל מְקַנְטְרָן בִּדְבָרִים. אָמַר לָהֶן: מִי גָּרַם לָכֶם שֶׁאֶעְלֶה מִבָּבֶל וְאֶהְיֶה נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיכֶם — עַצְלוּת שֶׁהָיְתָה בָּכֶם, שֶׁלֹּא שִׁמַּשְׁתֶּם שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר, שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

After Hillel brought these proofs, they immediately seated him at the head and appointed him Nasi over them, and he expounded the laws of Passover that entire day. In the course of his teaching, he began rebuking them [mekanteran] them with words. He said to them: What caused this to happen to you, that I should come up from Babylonia and become Nasi over you? It was the laziness in you that you did not serve the two most eminent scholars of the generation living in Eretz Yisrael, Shemaya and Avtalyon.

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: רַבִּי, שָׁכַח וְלֹא הֵבִיא סַכִּין מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת, מַהוּ? אָמַר לָהֶן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ שָׁמַעְתִּי וְשָׁכַחְתִּי, אֶלָּא הַנַּח לָהֶן לְיִשְׂרָאֵל, אִם אֵין נְבִיאִים הֵן — בְּנֵי נְבִיאִים הֵן.

They said to Hillel: Our teacher, if one forgot and did not bring a knife on the eve of Shabbat and cannot slaughter his Pesach lamb, what is the law? Since he could have brought the knife before Shabbat, he cannot bring it on Shabbat; but what should he do in this situation? He said to them: I once heard this halakha from my teachers but I have forgotten it. But leave it to the Jewish people; if they are not prophets to whom God has revealed His secrets, they are the sons of prophets, and will certainly do the right thing on their own.

לְמָחָר, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ טָלֶה — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בְּצַמְרוֹ, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ גְּדִי — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בֵּין קַרְנָיו. רָאָה מַעֲשֶׂה וְנִזְכַּר הֲלָכָה, וְאָמַר: כָּךְ מְקוּבְּלַנִי מִפִּי שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

The next day, on Shabbat that was the eve of Passover, one whose Pesach offering was a lamb took the knife and stuck it in its wool; and one whose Pesach offering was a goat, which does not have wool, stuck it between its horns. Hillel saw the incident and remembered the halakha that he had once learned and said: This is the tradition I received from the mouths of Shemaya and Avtalyon, meaning that this is in fact the proper course of action.

Shiur Sukkah 18b / Pesach II – 03/10/21

BS”D

Sukkah 18b / Pesach (2)

Adar 25, 5781, March 9, 2021

1- The Gemara introduces a major topic in the Halachos of Sukkah as well as Shabbos and Eiruvin.  

פי תקרה יורד וסותם 

הרב אברהם צבי וייס, הרב אברהם צבי ווייס מסכת עירובין דף צה

This is a הלכה למשה מסיני that when a roof ends and is free standing (not on a wall) we view as if the end of the roof ‘shoots down’ a virtual wall. 

פי תקרה יורד וסותם' – בתקרה שטוחה ובתקרה משופעת| 'קרפֵּף' וחצר הסמוכים זה לזה

2- We discussed the various limitation of this הלכה למשה מסיני as to when it applies. The ראשונים discuss if that it would work in a Sukkah that has with סכך on a frame without any solid walls. At the very least a Sukkah needs 2 solid walls before פי תקרה יורד וסותם can be applied to create the virtual 3rd or fourth wall. 

3- Concerning פי תקרה יורד וסותם;

There is a pivotal פני יהושע that expplains this concept by  asking a simple question: 

The bottom of a Sukkah wall needs to reach within 3 טפחים of the floor for it to be considered a proper wall. The reason the Gemara gives is if  ‘sheep can slip under a wall, they nullify the wall’.

Goats Head Appears Through Hole Concrete Stock Photo (Edit Now) 92127370

Thus, asks the פני יהושע, how can a ‘wall’ that does not exist at all be considered a wall using פי תקרה יורד וסותם ? 

His answer: A physical wall indeed needs to reach the bottom. A virtual wall ‘created’ by a הלכה למשה מסיני does have not such limitations since it does not physically exists to begin with! 

We continued the story of the year that Erev Pesach occurred on Shabbos. See notes of last shiur

4- We mentioned the word ‘cloisters’ קלויישטר״א  to describe the word ׳אכסדרה׳.  Rashi 17, a.  Tos. 18,a .  A Brief History Of The Cloisters, NYC

Cloisters, Fort Tryon Park, NY

The Cloisters: A Hidden Museum in New York - A Taste of Travel

What exactly is a cloister? Most simply, it’s a covered walkway, but they’re often attached to religious structures. These cloisters were excavated from France and rebuilt in NYC between 1934 and 1939 and are now surrounded by rooms filled with art from the time.

1Who were the Benei Beseira? 

Maharsha. Reb Yehuda, Reb Shimon Reb Yehoshua. 

2-  Greatness of the בני בתירא that relinquished their positions. 

Yerushalmi:

שלשה הניחו ב”ד בעוה”ז וירשו להם חיי עוה”ב, ואלו הן יונתן בן שאול ור’ אלעזר בן עזריה וזקני בתירא דשדין גרמא מן נשיותא ומנוני’ נשיא:  

כל מה שיאמר לי אדם לעשות אני עושה, חוץ ממה שעשו זקני בתירה לזקני (הלל), שויתרו על הנשיאות ומינו אותו לנשיא עליהם (ירושלמי כתובות ו:ג).

Rebi once said “Anything I am told I would do, anything except what the בני בתירא did! 

2How could they forget? 

Thoughts clipart forgot, Thoughts forgot Transparent FREE for download on WebStockReview 2021

A– Yerushalmi: 

ת”ר הלכה זו נתעלמה מבני בתירא כו’. ירושלמי אמר ר’ אבין והלא אי אפשר לשני שבועות שלא יחול ארבעה עשר בשבת ולמה נעלמה הלכה מהם כדי ליתן גדולה להילל. שלשה הניחו ב”ד בעוה”ז וירשו להם חיי עוה”ב ואלו הן יונתן בן שאול ור’ אלעזר בן עזריה וזקני בתירא דשדין גרמא מן נשיותא ומנוני’ נשיא:  

B –  Pnei Yehoshua. Meshech Chochma. They forgot if burning it on the Mizbeach was permitted on Shabbos or perhaps it was burned after Shabbos. 

פני יהושע פסחים סו א :  אלא דמה שנתעלמ’ מב”ב היינו לענין הקטרת פסח דנהי דשחיטתו וזריקתו דוחה שבת איכא למימר דהיינו משום דאי אפשר בענין אחר דלא לידחי לגמרי משא”כ לענין הקטרה דאפשר להקטירו בלילה 

במוצאי שבת. וכ”ה במשך חכמה. במדבר ט, ב. 

C – Meiri. They knew the Halachah. What they forgot was the basis, source and reason for the Halachah. 

D- Reb Yitzchok Elchonon Spector.

Yitzchak Elchanan Spektor - Wikipedia

Being that most Jews lived in Bovel, they were unsure if the minority in EY consisted of a רוב to make the קרבן פסח  a קרבן ציבור to override שבת. 

OurCrowd Portfolio Company Featured: Exploring the Latest in EdTech - OurCrowd Events

ספקטור שו”ת באר יצחק, חלק א סימן יד, ב

זה גופא היה הספק של בני בתירא. דהא המה היו בזמן בית שני דלא היו שם שני שבטים…וכיון דהרוב נשארו בבבל יש לדון דאין דינם כקרבן ציבור שדוחה שבת… או אפשר דעם כל זה דינם כמו קרבן ציבור דהא על כל פנים כל ישראל דבארץ ישראל המה בני חיובא, וכמו הא דהוריות (ג ע”א) דאמר רב אסי דבהוראה הלך אחר יושבי ארץ ישראל, כפי’ רש”י שם דאותן הדרים בחו”ל אינם נחשבים מן המנין…ועל זה הספק בא הלל וקפשט להו למילף בגזרה שוה

Shiur Sukkah 18a – Pesach – 03/02/21

  1. BS”D

1- We continued with the Sugya of לבוד, if this הלכה למשה מסיני applies to gaps in a roof of a house and a Sukkah as well as to gaps in walls. Meaning, do we bridge empty spaces, less than 3 טפחים, horizontally as well as vertically. 

זרע שמשון

2- Discussed the novel explanation of the  ערוך לנר and his connection to the Gemara in בבא בתרא about what is considered ‘an average sized house’. 

3- The Gemara talks about the issue of eating small kosher fish אברומה from a river that has also inhabits non kosher insects/fish.

דג הלש

Bream – אברומה?

The concern is that the non-kosher species occasionally mix or attach to the kosher ones. 

What are those parasites on my trout? - MSU Extension

4- We discussed the Halachah requiring one to ensure when purchasing fish that at least part of the skin (identifying it as skin that has or had scales) still be attached to the fillet.

Pan Seared Salmon - Crispy Skin Salmon takes 10 minutes to make!

Also touched on the topic if the color of the fish sufficient to identify it as kosher. Such as the (non dyed) pink color of salmon. Some claim that no other fish has this color while others dispute it.

Taste the fish rainbow - Furthermore

(Parenthetically, I once saw pink non kosher fish at a fish market in the Caribbean. Perhaps they were dyed). 

Red Fish, Blue Fish: Where The Fish Flesh Rainbow Comes From : The Salt : NPR

4- We spoke about the fish called ‘stincus marinus’ (scincus marinus).  This fish was a topic we came across when we learnt מסכת עבודה זרה. 

 

The issue is the Gemara says that all kosher fish have scales and also have fins. (As opposed to non-kosher fish that have only fins or no fins at all). 

When fishermen found this ‘stincus marinus’ in the Mediterranean with scales but no fins, there was much discussion on this phenomenon which seemed contrary to the Gemara. 

 

As discussed then, some experts claimed that this fish did indeed have tiny fins. Others simply said that the Gemara’s rule was not that 100% of all kosher fish have scales have fins, but the majority have. See here,  from HaKsav veHakabbalah, written by Rabbi Ya’akov Zvi Mecklenburg :

5- We discussed the controversy in the 1780s regarding two types of fish, Shteril and Tik, – שטירל or טיק – that had scales indeed, but were difficult to peel off the skin. The rule is that scales must be able to be peeled off without ripping the skin under them. 

German Jews ate them as opposed to Jews from Hungary. 

After inspecting the fish and successfully peeling off the scales, the Noda Biyehuda wrote that it is a kosher fish.

“ולכן ידע שדג זה ששלח לכאן טהור הוא בלי ספק כלל”

However, a dispute arose as to the identity of the fish type that was presented to the Noda Biyuhuda. 

Many publications were printed with each side claiming to be correct. See here one publication claiming that the Noda Biyehuda changed his mind. 

מקל נועם - גריסהבר, יצחק

5- The sturgeon fish appears in fact to be the שטירל – Shteril.

Acipenser ruthenus Prague Vltava 1.jpg

The whole story is told here.

6- With less than a month to Pesach, which begins this year on a Sunday, we read the text of the Gemara in פסחים concerning an  ערב פסח that happened to fall on Shabbos and the issue it brought up. 

We will IYH continue on this amazing story in the next few shiurim. 

פסחים סו,א.

ְּתָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ נִתְעַלְּמָה מִבְּנֵי בְתִירָא. פַּעַם אַחַת חָל אַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר לִהְיוֹת בְּשַׁבָּת, שָׁכְחוּ וְלֹא יָדְעוּ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לאו.

GEMARA: The Sages taught a baraita with regard to the basic halakha governing the eve of Passover that occurs on Shabbat: This law was forgotten by the sons of Beteira, who were the leaders of their generation. The fourteenth of Nisan once occurred on Shabbat, and they forgot and did not know whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not.

. אָמְרוּ: כְּלוּם יֵשׁ אָדָם שֶׁיּוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמְרוּ לָהֶם: אָדָם אֶחָד יֵשׁ שֶׁעָלָה מִבָּבֶל וְהִלֵּל הַבַּבְלִי שְׁמוֹ, שֶׁשִּׁימֵּשׁ שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן, וְיוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו. שָׁלְחוּ וְקָרְאוּ לוֹ,

They said: Is there any person who knows whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not? They said to them: There is a certain man in Jerusalem who came up from Babylonia, and Hillel the Babylonian is his name. At one point, he served the two most eminent scholars of the generation, Shemaya and Avtalyon, and he certainly knows whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not. The sons of Beteira sent messengers and called for him.

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: כְּלוּם אַתָּה יוֹדֵעַ אִם הַפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמַר לָהֶם: וְכִי פֶּסַח אֶחָד יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת? וַהֲלֹא הַרְבֵּה יוֹתֵר מִמָּאתַיִם פְּסָחִים יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחִין אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת

They said to him: Do you know whether the Pesach lamb overrides Shabbat or not? He said to them: Have we but one Pesach lamb during the year that overrides Shabbat? Do we not have many more than two hundred Pesach lambs, i.e., sacrifices, during the year that override Shabbat?

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: מִנַּיִן לְךָ? אָמַר לָהֶם: נֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּפֶּסַח, וְנֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּתָּמִיד: מָה ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּתָּמִיד דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, אַף ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

They said to him: From where do you know this? He said to them: “Its appointed time” is stated with regard to the Pesach lamb and “its appointed time” is also stated with regard to the daily offering, for the verse says: “Command the children of Israel and say to them, My offering, the provision of My sacrifice made with fire, for a sweet savor to Me, shall you observe to offer Me at its appointed time” (Numbers 28:2). From here we learn that the daily offering is brought even on Shabbat. Thus, the daily morning and afternoon offerings are brought on more than fifty Shabbatot over the course of the year, and two sheep are offered every Shabbat as additional offerings, for a total of more than two hundred sacrifices a year that override Shabbat. Just as the expression “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the daily offering, indicates that it overrides Shabbat, so too “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the Pesach lamb, indicates that it overrides Shabbat.

וְעוֹד, קַל וָחוֹמֶר הוּא: וּמָה תָּמִיד שֶׁאֵין עָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, פֶּסַח שֶׁעָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

And furthermore, it is a קל וחומר  inference: If the daily offering, the neglect of which is not punishable by karet, overrides Shabbat, is it not right that the Pesach lamb, the neglect of which is punishable by karet, should override Shabbat?

מִיָּד הוֹשִׁיבוּהוּ בָּרֹאשׁ, וּמִינּוּהוּ נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיהֶם, וְהָיָה דּוֹרֵשׁ כׇּל הַיּוֹם כּוּלּוֹ בְּהִלְכוֹת הַפֶּסַח. הִתְחִיל מְקַנְטְרָן בִּדְבָרִים. אָמַר לָהֶן: מִי גָּרַם לָכֶם שֶׁאֶעְלֶה מִבָּבֶל וְאֶהְיֶה נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיכֶם — עַצְלוּת שֶׁהָיְתָה בָּכֶם, שֶׁלֹּא שִׁמַּשְׁתֶּם שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר, שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

After Hillel brought these proofs, they immediately seated him at the head and appointed him Nasi over them, and he expounded the laws of Passover that entire day. In the course of his teaching, he began rebuking them [mekanteran] them with words. He said to them: What caused this to happen to you, that I should come up from Babylonia and become Nasi over you? It was the laziness in you that you did not serve the two most eminent scholars of the generation living in Eretz Yisrael, Shemaya and Avtalyon.

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: רַבִּי, שָׁכַח וְלֹא הֵבִיא סַכִּין מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת, מַהוּ? אָמַר לָהֶן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ שָׁמַעְתִּי וְשָׁכַחְתִּי, אֶלָּא הַנַּח לָהֶן לְיִשְׂרָאֵל, אִם אֵין נְבִיאִים הֵן — בְּנֵי נְבִיאִים הֵן.

They said to Hillel: Our teacher, if one forgot and did not bring a knife on the eve of Shabbat and cannot slaughter his Paschal lamb, what is the law? Since he could have brought the knife before Shabbat, he cannot bring it on Shabbat; but what should he do in this situation? He said to them: I once heard this halakha from my teachers but I have forgotten it. But leave it to the Jewish people; if they are not prophets to whom God has revealed His secrets, they are the sons of prophets, and will certainly do the right thing on their own.

לְמָחָר, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ טָלֶה — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בְּצַמְרוֹ, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ גְּדִי — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בֵּין קַרְנָיו. רָאָה מַעֲשֶׂה וְנִזְכַּר הֲלָכָה, וְאָמַר: כָּךְ מְקוּבְּלַנִי מִפִּי שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

The next day, on Shabbat that was the eve of Passover, one whose Pesach offering was a lamb took the knife and stuck it in its wool; and one whose Pesach offering was a goat, which does not have wool, stuck it between its horns. Hillel saw the incident and remembered the halakha that he had once learned and said: This is the tradition I received from the mouths of Shemaya and Avtalyon, meaning that this is in fact the proper course of action.