Beitza 34a-b

1- We continued the discussion concerning doing a permitted מלאכה when there is a chance that it may go awry and  result in expending effort needlessly. If it does happen to go bad, the work one did is considered חילול יום טוב.

Rashi:

שצריך לבודקן – אם יוכלו לקבל לבונה הלכך ביו”ט לא דלמא פקעי ואשתכח דטרח שלא לצורך

The Mishnah and Gemara tackle the case of  the ‘new tiles’. As mentioned last week, an ancient  method of cooking was by heating a tile and then placing food on it to cook.

If a tile has never been used there is a chance that it may crack and thus the cooking on Yom Tov would be in vain.

From there the Gemara goes on to a case of shechting a chicken on Yom Tov where the odds are that after inspection it will turn out to have been treif.

We mentioned the Halachah that a Mohel should not do his first Bris on Shabbos! The concern is that he may mess up (ouch!) and be considered a מחלל שבת.

See here. 331,13.

2- We learnt about using a bellows on Yom Tov.

3- A way of cracking nuts in large quantities is by placing them inside a towel and smashing them with a hammer. The nut shells will crack indeed but the towel may get ripped as well.  The Gemore says that such cracking is permitted on Yom Tov.

Rashi says that the ripping קורע (one of the 39 מלאכות) is not an issue because ripping is only prohibited when the intention is to rip for the purpose of mending (sewing it back together).

ואין חוששין שמא תקרע – ואפי’ נקרעת לא אכפת לן דאין זה קורע על מנת לתפור

We learnt the Reb Akiva Eiger who asks on Rashi that such an action (ripping without the intent to resew it) is nevertheless prohibited miDerabonon .

Reb Akiva Eiger has another explanation on this.

4- From here we entered another interesting Sugya:

Does the mandated eating on Shabbos have the power to ‘uplift’ the status of the meal?

We mentioned one scenario enwhere the Shabbos meal perhaps changes the meal status and we will get into the Gemara’s cases next week.

The case concerns the eating of non-bread (aka cake) and the ברכה אחרונה.

Generally, only bread establishes an eating event as a meal . קביעת סעודה.

Nevertheless, one needs to wash, say המוציא and bentch a full ברכת המזון on cake if he eats more than 6 or 8 ounces. This large quantity of cake, cookies or pizza creates a סעודה and a regular washing, המוציא and bentching is required. See here. (2, 2)

Due to the מצוה  of eating on Shabbos, does eating cake on Shabbos (at a Shabbos meal where one does not wash), create ‘an important meal’ and would it necessitate a המוציא and full bentching even if one eats only one small piece of cake?

 

More next week.

Beitza 33b – 34a

The Gemara explains that the prohibition involved with lighting a fire on Yom Tov is that the person is ‘creating a new entity’. משום דקא מוליד ביום טוב.

We discussed that despite this clear Gemara, the Rambam (Y”T 4, 1) writes that the reason is ‘because one could have lit the fire before Yom Tov’.

The ראב”ד makes note of this.

אין מוציאין את האש לא מן העצים ולא מן האבנים ולא מן המתכות. כגון שחוככין אותן זו בזו או מכין זו בזו עד שתצא האש. וכן הנפט החד ביותר שהוא במים שמנידין אותם עד שידלק. או כלי זך קשה או זכוכית מלאה מים שמניחין אותה כנגד עין השמש עד שיחזור נגהה לפשתן וכיוצא בו וידלק. כל זה וכיוצא בו אסור ביום טוב. שלא הותר ביום טוב אלא להבעיר מאש מצויה. אבל להמציא אש אסור שהרי אפשר להמציא אותה מבערב:

אין מוציאין את האש וכו’. כתב הראב”ד ז”ל ויאמר מפני שהוא מוליד ואין כאן הכנה והוא הטעם שמפרש בגמרא עכ”ל:

We mentioned the Alter Rebbe (502, 1)  that combines both reasons: מוליד  and the lighting the fire prior to Yom Tov.

2- We spoke about an important, but unknown to many, Halachah that is the basis for many of the things we do on Yom Tov.

Even though one is permitted to cook on Yom Tov this applies only to food that cannot be cooked before Yom Tov or food that will lose some of its taste by being cooked a day before Yom Tov.

Food that tastes better when aged, such as lokshen, (  סעיף ו ) one is prohibited from cooking on Yom Tov!

The reason is that one will be busy all Yom Tov cooking food and forgetting about שמחת יום טוב.

[We mentioned some Poskim that say this about potatoes!]

See Alter Rebbe here.

3- An ancient  method of cooking was by heating a clay or ceramic tile and then placing food on this red-hot tile.

There is a prohibition against heating new and unused tiles because either it is necessary to test them before use since some tiles may crack in the oven making them useless, or because it is the final stage of production of the tiles.  מכה בפטיש.

3- From this the Gemara swung into הלכות טריפות concerning a chicken that was stepped on or smashed against a wall. We discussed the concept of ריסוק אברים – dislocated limbs and the 24 hour one must wait until the shechita to ensure the chicken is not a treifah.  

4- We mentioned some of the issues of chicken producers throwing the chicken crates off the trucks if that is considered ‘a chicken that fell’  – נפולות.  The real מחמירים have each chicken walk four amos prior to shechita. See here.

latest in fowl fashion from the Chicken Runway

5- We continued discussing shechting a ספק טריפה on Yom Tov.

While shechting in general is permitted since most animal are not treif  (although we mentioned the Maharshal, quoted by the Alter Rebbe, that says that today one should not shecht on Yom Tov ) if the animal loses its חזקת כשרות (as above, a chicken that fell or was crushed) then it may be an issue just like using new tiles to cook. The tile may crack and the chicken may turn out to be treif.

6- Our Gemara discusses a case where many people are involved in the cooking process each doing a different parts. One of the them is ‘bringing the water’,  

We began to discuss the issue of cooking water on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

Some interesting facts that we will continue next week.

a- Is cooking water considered ‘cooking’?! The Halacha is that one who cooks something that does not need to be cooked (i.e. something that is already cooked) is not חייב. 

So water, since it does not change when cooked and returns to its original state once it is cooled off does not ‘need to be cooked to be consumed’.  רדב”ז

ולענין דבר הנאכל כמו שהוא חי אם יש בו משום מבשל בשבת לענין מלקות אינה לוקה אבל אסור מדרבנן.

[The Alter Rebbe disagrees on raw fruit].

See Rambam (Shabbos 9, 1) and Kesef Mishna that quotes the רמ”ך. He was Reb Moshe HaKohen from Lunel. A city in the Provence, France that was founded by Jews from Yericho. (Now it’s free of Jews and lehavdil, a nest of terrorists)

b- what is the temperature of cooking water? Boiling or is just warming is also considered cooking?

We mentioned the אגלי טל.

בהפנים סעיף ח’ החמרתי במים כדאיתא שם, ומקור הדברים עפ”י מ”ש בס”ק י”ט אות ט”ז עייש”ה, וחוזרני בי מדברים אלו דאין ראי’ מבישול עכו”ם דחשוב בישול משום החימום לבד, דאף דהמים שותין אותן כשהן חיין זהו כששותה אותם צוננים, אבל השותה אותן חמין אינו שותה אותן אלא מבושלין, והעד שמחממין את המים עד שיעלה רתיחות כדי שיבושלו כל צרכן, וכשכבר נתבשלו ונצטננו אין מחממין אותן כל כך רק עד שיהי’ מחוממין הראוי’ לשתי’, ש”מ שחמין אין שותין רק מבושלין, וע”כ כשמבשלין המים לשתותן חמין חשיב בישול לא בשביל החמום לבד, רק משום הבישול דלשתותן חמין צריך אל הבישול ג”כ וכו’

We mentioned the source for the prohibition for cooking water on Shabbos being our Gemara, from the

פרי חדש, 68- p123 . טור ב, שו”ה מהכי

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=yd_x4563

To be continued.

.פמ”ג – אף שיש בישול א”ב בדבר לח, מ”מ יתכן ששמן של אווז שא”א לאכלו חי יש בא”ב. רנד, א”א, א.

 

• Beitza 33b Continue reading Shiur Beitza 33b 05/15/18 →

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Beitza 33a (2)

1- Our Mishnah presents a dispute regarding the permissibly of gathering slivers of wood.

Rav Yehudah rules that it is permitted to make slivers – toothpicks – out of materials that are soft enough to be used as animal food, such as straw or reeds.

2- Our Mishnah continues about the prohibition of creating a fire on Yom Tov,  specifying the types of materials one can use to create a fire:

Rubbing wood, knocking stones, heated sand, and tiles which are banged against each other.

It also mentions creating fire from ‘water’ !

Rashi explains that one uses water as a magnifying  glass to create a flame. He concludes ‘so I have heard from the Gaon of Lombardia, Italy’.

cooking on heated sand

See here an interesting forum about the teachers quoted by Rashi.

3- We discussed the general rule about cooking on Shabbos. The Gemara in perek Kira in Shabbos 39a, categorizes two types of heat sources:

1- Fire- אור (ur)

2- The sun – חמה

Cooking/baking/frying/ on a fire is  of course prohibited Min Hatorah.

Cooking by a derivative of fire, such as placing raw food on a hot tray that was heated by fire, is also Min Hatorah.  תולדות האור.

cooking with the sun

On the other hand, cooking by using the heat of the sun is fully permitted! Such as placing a pitcher of water exposed to the sun on very hot day. That is not considered  בישול at all.

Reason being in that it is not ‘the usual way of cooking’, or because it is ‘not the way things were cooked in the Mishkan’.

sun oven

But cooking in a derivative of the sun’s rays is prohibited. So placing raw food on a hot try that was heated by the sun is prohibited MideRabonon. תולדות החמה.

4- What about cooking using a mirror that reflects the sun’s rays?

We mentioned the ancient Greek story of Archimedes (lived in the times of the, lehavdil, early תנאים) that set the ship of his foes on fire by using a the sun’s rays via a glass contraption.

For years it was considered a myth until some scientists at MIT were able to somewhat replicate this feat.

See here.

A sea of mirrors reflects sunlight toward a solar power tower, heating liquid, creating steam, turning a turbine, making electricity.

5- From here we went to discuss the issue of the Israeli דוד שמש.

                 “dud shemesh” not employing electric heating

 

Water is heated by absorbing the sun’s rays and then piped down to the house. If one were to place raw food in water heated by this solar system, would that be considered cooking  by ‘the sun’ (permitted) or cooking in the ‘derivative of the sun’ (prohibited)?

This question generated a heated (pardon the pun) debate among the great Rabbis of the previous generation. See here for many opinions.

                      some dude cleaning his dud

6- We spoke about the opinions about using matches or as it was called צינדהעלצעל. Is lighting one considered crating a new fire or perhaps the phosphorus has ‘the fire in it already’ and it is like lighting from an existing flame.

The כתב סופר and others prohibited it and such is the Halachah. See here. (67)

http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=950&st=&pgnum=123

7- We mentioned cooking in a natural hot water spring like חמי טברי.

To be continued…

Beitza 33a.

Lag B’Omer.

1- Our Gemore mentions both Rashbi and his son Reb Elazar in regard to muktzeh on Yom Tov.

2- The word ‘chingeh’.  חינגא. Rashi translates it as a dance. In our Gemare that word is used to describe a market place being that people go around in circles around the aisles and stalls.

 

3- We next discussed the issue of using a fresh branch as a spit. Since such a moist twig will not be used as firewood, if a person didn’t prepare it as a spit before Yom Tov, it is Muktzeh and cannot be used to roast a hot dog on a BBQ.

[As Yankel reminds us – a BBQ is with coals. Not gas.]

 

 

4- From here we went to discuss the age old question of lowering the fire on a gas range on Yom Tov.

Before we continue let’s be clear – in general, don’t reduce a flame on Yom Tov.  

Case: Someone has a pot on the fire and realizes that the flame is too high and the food will overcook or burn. Moving the pot a bit off the fire will not help.

Now, if he has only one burner, and he wants to keep the food hot, then there seems to be no issue. He may indeed lower the gas.

Why? Because just as one is allowed to ignite a fire (from an existing flame) to prepare food for  Yom Tov one may equally extinguish (or partly reduce a fire’s intensity) for the same purpose – ensuring that the food does not burn and remain edible.

We indeed find that reducing a fire is allowed on Yom Tov. Such as in our Mishnah concerning the scraping the oven for the preparation of baking even with a wet scrape.

The question is when, B”H, as in our homes, we have more than one burner.

So when a pot is about to burn and we want the food to remain hot, one has two options:

1- Lower the gas under pot.

2- Move the pot to another burner and ignite a new smaller flame.

If we tell him to choose option two, to start a new fire and  to avoid reducing or extinguishing the exsisting flame, what has been gained? He did a melachah (lighting a fire) to avoid another one!

Unless extinguishing is worse than igniting.

This topic is wide ranged and we will discuss it more in the future BL”N.

5- We continued the topic of the Chidush of the Alter Rebbe concerning tearing and ripping on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

Last week someone mentioned that modern production of paper may define paper as ‘not one piece’.

Pulp

fibers

Paper

Mendel Nemanov remind us that we spoke about this in the past.

Here it is:

MAKOS 4A – SHIUR (6/17/14)

JUNE 17, 2014 DAF LEAVE A COMMENT

Makos 4a.

1. We spoke about the big chiddush of the A”R in Hilchos Shabbos. In short, the A”R states that there are two ‘melochos’  pertaining to cutting/tearing/ripping on Shabbos:

A-  Chotech-, which only applies when cutting an object something to measure and/or in an exact line. Such as a perforated sheet or tissue.

B-  Ko’rea-  which only applies in a case where cutting, ungluing or taking apart any composite material. Meaning  that is put together from a bunch of parts. Such as a piece of cloth that is woven from many strands.

Therefore, cutting a paper, which is not a composite,  there is no issue to do so on Shabbos unless one forms something new by cutting it.

​ The Mishna Brurah mentions this chiddush of the A”R but does not mention the A”R’s name! See the attached PDF.

We mentioned that an Israeli Yemenite Rov, a  true talmid chochom, Reb Pinchos Zevichi, writes that due to the change in the method of producing paper nowadays (it is a composite of many materials)   A”R would agree that even today you would not be allowed to tear a paper on Shabbos.

It is in his book  עטרת פז. ח”א.

http://www.bsd-paz.org/Texts/AteretPaz_v1_Orech_Haim/html/E7ECF75FE05FEBF8EA5FE05FE0E5F8E75FE7E9E9ED5FF1E9EEEF5FE9E15FE0E5FA5FE62DE7.htm

Others who mention it:

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/hebrewbooks_org_51762_62.pdf

http://atranet.co.il/aviadstollman/responsan_new.asp?m=6

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