Sukkah 3a (2) 01/14/2020

Suka 3a (2) 17 Teves, 5780. Jan 14, 2020

Some points discussed:

1- The effect of a תקנת חכמים on a מצוה דאורייתא. This is a big topic. 

Famous Tosafos on our Daf where they state that a Takanah of  חכמים, once enacted, invalidates any other way it can be performed. Even מן התורה. Meaning that one must follow their ruling and if not, he is not יוצא even on a דאורייתא level. 

Example: our Sugya- (One of the 6 rare instances when) the Halachah is like Beis Shammai and sitting inside a Sukkah while eating out of a plate that is inside a house (or out if the Suka)  is prohibited lest one accidentally ‘follow his table’ and consume his food inside the house or out of the Suka.

Image result for raining in sukkah

This is a גזירה of the Chachamim. Now, says Tosafos, if one does it on the first night of Sukkos, he is not יוצא even on a דאורייתא level. His eating is as if he did nothing. 

The Ran and others disagree. Their opinion is that one is יוצא מן התורה. It’s just that he is not יוצא מדרבנן. 

What is the practical difference? Regardless, one would need to eat again (properly, meaning the plate being inside the Sukkah)   – whether מן התורה (Tosfos) or מדרבנן (Ran). 

We mentioned a few ideas. 

A- Sha’gas Arye (96) – If for example, there was a prohibition for him to eat in a Sukkah. Such as if one made a נדר not to eat anywhere outside a house. On the first night of Sukkos one would need to eat in a Sukkah regardless since the מצות עשה of Sukkah would outweigh the prohibition of נדר. 

Now that he ate in a Sukkah but didn’t follow the ruling of the Chachamim, according to the Ran he would not be permitted to eat another meal in a Sukkah, since he has already fulfilled his תורה obligation. Tosafos, on the other hand would say that his first act is considered nil. So he still has a Torah obligation to eat in a Sukkah. 

Image result for eat in sukkah

B- Minchas Chinuch. (10:2). The rule is that Beis Din must force people to observe Mitzvos. But that rule only applies to Mitzvos דאורייתא. 

ועשאג”א נ”מ אי א”י מן התורה או דרבנן אם מן התורה א”י ואח”ז נזדמן לו איסור תורה שעדל”ת מותר וחובה לאכול דעדל”ת אבל אכל דבר שיצא מן התורה רק מדרבנן ל”י ונזדמן לו אח”כ איסור כיון דמה”ת יצא אינו חייב בעשה ואדל”ת וערש”י כתובות צ”א דדוקא במצות דאורייתא כופין עד שת”נ אבל במצוה דרבנן אין כופין. אם כן נ”מ ג”כ אי מן התורה ל”י כופין אותו אח”כ עד שת”נ אבל אם מדרבנן ל”י אין כופין. אך התו’ כתובות פ”ו השיגו ע”ז.

ועיין בשאג”א (see above)  דאם אין לו מצה של היתר בגוונא דעדל”ת כגון חדש יאכל האיסור דעדל”ת. ולכאור’ יש לספק אם יש לפנינו חדש וטבל דרבנן וטבל דרבנן אינו נדחה מפני מצה ע’ בש”ס אם יכול לאכול החדש דעדל”ת כיון דקיימא לן כ”מ שאפשר לקיים שניהם אין ל”ת נדחה וכאן מדאורייתא אפשר לקיים בטבל דרבנן וא”צ לדחות הל”ת אם כן מיקרי אפשר.

So in our case according to Tosafos, Beis Din would need to force him to re-eat since his first meal amounted to nothing. According to the Ran, he basically fulfilled his Torah obligation despite transgressing the דרבנן edict. 

Image result for force to eat

C- Perhaps there would be a difference if he would need to say a Brachah on the second time . According to Tosafos he surely would be obligated. According to the Ran- maybe not. 

D- Blowing the Shofar on ראש השנה that occurs Shabbos. Does he make שהחיינו on the second day?  

2- Discussed another aspect of the above. 

Image result for blowing shofar

Kiddush Shabbos night. מן התורה one must sanctify Shabbos. זכור את יום השבת לקדשו- בדברים. Doing it verbally is sufficient. 

The Chachamin enacted that one should do it on a cup of wine (and drink it as well). 

In reality, once one says at Kabbalas Shabbos ברוך אתה ה’ מקדש השבת he is יוצא  מן התורה! 

So unless he has כוונה not to do the Mitzvah of מקדש את השבת, he is done! 

That means that his קידוש  before the meal is only דרבנן. 

How can he then make Kiddush for his wife? He is doing it only מדרבנן (on wine) she, on the other hand, is still at the De’Oiraise obligation! YG says: Unless she greets him with a “Gut Shabbos”…. See below. 

Fiddler on the Roof (5/10) Movie CLIP - Sabbath Prayer (1971) HD - YouTube

Or, once the Chachamim enacted to be מקדש on wine, any other way is not valid at all –  one is not יוצא even on a דאורייתא level. Thus his Kiddush on wine is דאורייתא. 

See Mincahs Chinuch (31). 

אך עתה שתקנו חכמינו זכרונם לברכה הנוסח דהיינו להתחיל בשם ומלכות ולסיים והוא לא עשה כן רק אמר דברים מעצמו למעלת היום אפשר אף מן התורה לא יצא כמ”ש התוס’ סוכה גבי לא קיימת מצות סוכה מימיך

3- We discussed the famous Rav Akiva Eiger’s ruling that just by saying “Gut Sabbos” one is יוצא ! See here

See here as well. Humorous story at the end.

Image result for calendar question 

4- We spoke about Rav Akiva Eiger’s ‘Gut Shabbos’ ruling in Japan in 1941.  

To be continued. 

 

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