Suka 35a (2)  03/08/22


Suka 35a (2) 

2nd Adar 5, 5782. March 8, 2022

Many interesting topics were discussed this week. Here are few. 

1- The Esrog needs to have the following : 

A –  ‘Ownership’ and B – ‘Usage’

(See discussion in previous shiur here)

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A – We know that ownership is a must, ולקחתם לכם, at least on the first day. The Esrog must belong to its user 100%. Borrowing or renting is insufficient. 

Additionally, owning must mean that there is a monetary value to it. An item that is worthless cannot be considered fully ‘owned’. (see ahead more on this). 

Thus, as Esrog in the first 3 years of its planting, ערלה, which cannot be eaten and must be burned, is אסור בהנאה. It has no monetary value so in a sense it is not ‘owned’ by the owner. At least it is not a true לכם, which means ‘yours’ in the full sense of the word. 

America's Only Etrog Farmer Isn't Even Jewish - Tablet Magazine

B – Usage  – the Esrog must be edible. That too is an extension of the לכם, as Rashi phrases it: לכם, yours to use in every possible way, including the eating of it. (see ahead more on this). 

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2- מעשר שני, must be brought to Yerusholayim and eaten there. Thus, an Esrog of מעשר שני, definitely passes the ‘usage’ bar. 

דף מידע על תרומות ומעשרות

But does the owner of the produce have full ownership? That is an argument between Reb Meir who says it’s ממון גבוה, and the חכמים who say it’s ממון בעלים. So according to Reb Meir, an Esrog from מעשר שני cannot be used since it lacks ownership. 

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3 – On the topic of ownership – Items which are אסור בהנאה, like חמץ  or ערלה; one cannot use them. One cannot be מקדש  a woman with it because it has no value. But does it belong to him? Can someone just take it from the owner? 

That is a big topic. 

4- We mentioned a famous question that was posed by these three: Reb Akiva Eiger, the brother of the קצות and the Rov of Berdichev in a letter to the Alter Rebbe. 

File:Akiva Eger.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Reb Akiva Eiger – Printed in the Vilna Shas. BK 90b. 

קצות החושן סימן ת”ו – Ketzos 406 

(ב) והפקירו קודם שעמד בדין ואחי הרב המופלג מוהר”ר יהודה כהן ש”ן הקשה בהא דאמרינן פרק החובל דף צ’ שור שהמית ואח”כ הזיק אם הוא מועד דנין אותו ד”מ ואח”כ דנין אותו דיני נפשות קדמוהו ודנוהו דיני נפשות אין חוזרין ודנין אותו דיני ממונות ופריך וכי קדמוהו ודנו אותו דיני נפשות ליהדר ולדייני אותו ד”מ ע”ש ומאי פריך הא אמרינן בכריתות (דף כ”ד) שור הנסקל שהוזמו עדיו כל הקודם וזכה בו זכה בו משום דאפקורי אפקר ליה וכיון דקדמוהו ודנו אותו דיני נפשות הרי נעשה הפקר ואיך איפשר ליהדר ולדייני דיני ממונות כיון דהפקירו קודם שהעמידו בדין ע”כ:

 נפתלי הירש מסטאנוב – Berditchev Rov, 

The Rov of Berditchev wrote a lengthy question (concerning סרכות, lesion on lungs of cows)  to the Alter Rebbe and having a bit of space at the end of the page he added this question.




The AR responds to the main topic of his letter and at the very end also answers this question.  

The question was concerning a  שור הנסקל, after it was sentenced, becoming איסורי הנאה, if the owners can be מפקיר it. 

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The קצות,  based on many ראשונים says that איסורי הנאה does still belong 100% to the owners. No one can steal it from them. Many ראשונים say that one loses ownership to such items. 

5- The Chitas of this day begins with the words וְאִם מִנְחַת מַרְחֶשֶׁת קָרְבָּנֶךָ, סֹלֶת בַּשֶּׁמֶן תֵּעָשֶׂה . A Minchah that was brought in a deep pot.

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We spoke about the popular ספר by this name. ספר מרחשת 

Written by Reb חנוך העניך אייגש one of the Rabbonim in Vilna before the war. His Sefer is a classic Yeshiva Sefer of למדות. Reb Henech was tragically killed in WW2. One of the reasons he named his Sefer מרחשת was because ‘it is very deep’….

In the first chapter of his sefer he writes at length about this topic.

איסורי הנאה אם הם שלו. 

6- B – Usage. 

The Gemara says that one must be able to have the option to eat the Esrog. As mentioned earlier that being able to eat it  is an extension of the לכם, to use in every possible way, including the eating of it. 

So an Esrog before תרומות ומעשר  were given is considered טבל. The inability to eat the Esrog since it is טבל, disqualifies such an Esrog for the Mitzvah. תוספות.

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7- We discussed 2 other scenarios of an Esrog not being edible. 

1- If the Esrog became טריף. How? If it fell into a pot of חלב (fats) that is non-kosher. Or if it was soaked overnight in a liquid that is טריף.

Usable or not? 

The Mogen Avrohom 649, 20 says although some say that one cannot use such an Esrog since it is inedible, his opinion is לאו דווקא. His reasoning is that the איסור comes from an external factor. As opposed to an Esrog of ערלה for example, the איסור is מחמת עצמו. 

2- Back to the מרחשת! In Chapter 20 he discusses an Esrog that became inedible because of a סכנה! Such as a poisonous animal bit into it. Or, better yet, it was left overnight under a bed. 

Snake with an Apple Fruit in Its Mouth Stock Image - Image of copyspace, apple: 164896573

His question on this is  very interesting. The prohibition to consume food items because of a סכנה – is that a Torah איסור or a ‘human/moral’ איסור. If it’s only a moral issue, then Halachically, such an Esrog would be Kosher to use on Sukkos.   

There was more discussed and will BL”N be continued at the next shiur. 



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