Shiur Sukkah 50a – 03/15/23

BS”D

Sukkah 50a

Adar 22, 5783. March 15, 2023

1- Tosfos raises 2 points. 

A- What is the issue with filling the vessels with the water for ניסוך המים a day early? 

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The Gemara says that it would become פסול בלינה since anything that is left overnight in a כלי קודש becomes פסול בלינה. 

Asks Tosfos: filling up the water a day early is not considered ‘filling it’, since it is before the זמן for the שאיבה which begins only at night. The fact that it was poured into  the vessel before the proper time of the שאיבה is as if ‘a monkey poured into the כלי!

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[More on monkeys later]. So even when the זמן of nightfall arrives, it would not become קדוש since ‘no one’ filled it up. מעשה קוף. 

B- Why is the water for the ניסוך המים , that is filled from the שילוח, (a stream outside ירושלים) not become פסול due to the laws of יוצא. 

יוצא is a general rule that anything that is קודש cannot be taken out of either the עזרה or  ירושלים. Removing it causes it to become פסול.

So how can the water remain קודש if it is drawn outside the city walls?

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We discussed Tosfos’s answer on these two interesting topics. 

2- We mentioned the famous question on the Gemara פסחים מא. This is in regards to a קרבן פסח, which must be broiled over a fire. Cooking it in water is strictly forbidden.  

[Will discuss at next shiur the reason for this BL”N]. 

What if one cooks the קרבן פסח in the חמי טבריה? The hot springs of טבריה? Rav Chisda ? says on is חייב! 

אָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא: הַמְבַשֵּׁל בְּחַמֵּי טְבֶרְיָא בְּשַׁבָּת — פָּטוּר. פֶּסַח שֶׁבִּשְּׁלוֹ בְּחַמֵּי טְבֶרְיָא — חַיָּיב.
Rav Ḥisda said: One who cooks food in the hot springs of Tiberias on Shabbat is exempt. One violates the Shabbat prohibition of cooking only if he uses a fire. In the case of a Paschal lamb that was cooked, i.e., boiled, in the hot springs of Tiberias, one is liable for boiling the offering.
Boiling Eggs In Hot Springs At Chaeson Hot Spring National Park In Lampang, Thailand. Stock Photo, Picture And Royalty Free Image. Image 115048219.

The obvious question is that taking the קרבן פסח to טבריה would make it פסול! 

It cannot mean a type of hot spring like חמי טבריה in ירושלים, as the גמרא says elsewhere (Pesachim 8b) that there are no hot springs in ירשלים , least someone would say he’s coming not for the קדושה of ירשלים but to soak in the local spas….

Some suggest that the water from ‘טברי can retain it’s heat by bringing it in a thermos…. But would not that be a כלי שני?  Unless the thermos was immersed into the water in טבריה. 

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B’H – We finished the 4th Perek. 

3 –  Fifth פרק 

Began to discuss the topic of the שמחה associated with ניסוך המים

As per Rashi, the שמחה is associated with  the drawing of the water as it says ושאבתם מים בששון. 

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Mentioned the question on the Rambam that states the obligation for the שמחה יתרה that occurred on סוכות but omits to mention that is was due to ניסוך המים.

That’s a bit topic that the Rebbe spoke about many times. We will discuss it again in the future. To start see here. LS 17, 267

4- We mentioned the answer on the above question from an ‘under the radar’ תלמיד חכם that was unknown until he published his magnom opus on the ספר המצוות of Reb Sa’adia Gaon. 

Reb Yeruchem Fishel Perlow. English 

5 – Speaking of מעשה קוף in the above תוספות, we discussed a fascinating piece in the מורה נבוכים where the Rambam states that there are species of beings that are an intermediary between a human and an animal! 

No photo description available.

Part 3, 51

6- In this vein, we discussed the Mishna in כלאים. 8, 6. 

Yossi Feintuch: Who's afraid of the big fat ox - ייצור ידע

שׁוֹר בָּר, מִין בְּהֵמָה. וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר, מִין חַיָּה. כֶּלֶב, מִין חַיָּה. רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר, מִין בְּהֵמָה. חֲזִיר, מִין בְּהֵמָה. עָרוֹד, מִין חַיָּה. הַפִּיל וְהַקּוֹף, מִין חַיָּה. וְאָדָם מֻתָּר עִם כֻּלָּם לִמְשֹׁךְ וְלַחֲרֹשׁ וּלְהַנְהִיג:

The wild ox [is in the category of] a בהמה. But Rabbi Yose says: [it is in the category] of chayyah. 

The dog [ is in the category of] a chayyah. But Rabbi Yose says: [it is in the category] of a behemah. The pig [is in the category of] a behemah. 

The wild donkey [is in the category of] a  chayyah. 

The elephant and the monkey [they are in the category of] a chayyah. A human being is permitted to draw, plow, or lead with any of them. 

Monkey on Elephant | Eric King | Flickr

The obvious question is why mention the elephant and monkey and not other animals. Why only these two animals? All animals are different.

The מלאכת שלמה suggest that these two animals resemble the human. The monkey with his upright posture and demeanor and the elephant with his ability to understand human speech. 

Therefore the  גמרא says that when one sees these two particular animals the ברכה of משנה הבריות is made. 

He adds that during the מבול some humans were punished by turning into monkeys and elephants. Evolution in reverse

That is the reason for this ברכה on these two animals only.

Truly משנה הבריות!  

Similarly, the Mishna in כלאים needs to tell us that despite the elephant and monkey being descendants from humans they are considered animals. 

 

 

Thanks to Dani Chitrik who sent this link:

ספר שלמה משנתו. ברכות נז, א. 

IY”H more on this in the next shiur . 

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