Shiur Sukkah 23a (2) 07/07/21


Sukkah 23a (2)

Tamuz 26, 7581. July 7, 2021

1- We continued on the topic of אינו ראוי או אסור מדרבנן נקרא אינו ראוי מן התורה .

Such as a Sukkah on a tree top. מדרבנן one cannot climb on a tree on Shabbos or Yom Tov. 

Stockfoto Silhouette Of Person Climbing On Palm Tree On

If however one does use this tree-top Sukkah, did he fulfill the מצוה? Or perhaps since the חכמים enacted their גזירה they uprooted this particular סוכה  and one is not יוצא  even מן התורה.

In different words: A Sukka must be a structure that can be used for the full 7 days of Sukkos.  The Schach needs to be in good shape (not dry and clubling) for the entire 7 days. ראוי לשבעה.

Now we have a Sukka, on top of a tree,  that מדרבנן, one will not be able to use on Shabbos and Yom Tov. Is such ‘valid for 7 days’?

The fact that such a Sukka cannot be used on Yom Tov makes it valid for only 6 days!

So it’s valid for 7 days מדאורייתא but מדרבנן for only 6.

Is this called ראוי לשבעה?

We mentioned the Reb Akiva Eiger who says although climbing a tree is prohibited on Shabbos and Yom Tov, if one climbs במזיד, he must stay on the tree all day. So when he will actually sit inside the Sukka he does it בהיתר. Therefore it is  it’s considered ראוי לשבעה! 

Illinois Man Trapped In Tree While Escaping Dog

2- We continued with the :ברייתא  Reb Meir says that any living thing (animals)  cannot be used for a דופן לסוכה, לחי, פסי ביראות  גולל.

In regards to גולל, it means that this anima does not become part of the ארון and קבר and not טמא.

We discussed the two opinions of the meaning of גולל. Rashi says it is the cover of a coffin. So Reb Meir is saying, that  an animal does not become טמא  like the rest of the ארון. 

Tomb with Round Stone in Israel | Saint Mary's Press

Rabeinu Tam says it’s inconceivable that anyone would place an animal, even temporarily, atop of a coffin. 

His opinion is that גולל means a מציבה. If one is buried and there is no stone around to mark the grave site, an animal would be tied temporarily to a stake on top grave site. 

The Tomb of Jesus: First Century Jewish Burials

3- We discussed the issue of הלכות in Shas that are very far fetched – meaning the odds of such occurrences to happen are  close to nil. Such as the גולל according to Rashi’s translation. 

Tosfos in Shabbos 152b says that Rashi is not bothered by the fact that no one places a horse, for example, on top of a corpse. 

“For we find in Shas many examples of cases that are not common and the Gemara has no issue with discussing its הלכות in great detail” דרוש וקבל שכר. 

And Tosfos goes on to numerate some of these far fetched examples. Such as ‘a cow giving birth to a calf with the newborn entering the womb of a another calf’! 

Cow & Calf

Our Gemara’s case of a cow hanging on a sling and creating a wall of a Sukkah is another example! See below. 

REGA rescuing cows from flood | Living In Geneva

4- We discussed the Alter Rebbe’s words in Tanya where he too cites   הלכות that are unlikely to occur. 

Let us understand [how this applies to] the details of the laws that never occur at all,וּלְהָבִין פְּרָטֵי הַהֲלָכוֹת דְּלָא   שְׁכִיחֵי כְּלָל, and possibly never actually existed,וְאֶפְשָׁר שֶׁלֹּא הָיוּ מֵעוֹלָם בִּמְצִיאוּת, and certainly will not come to pass in the Time to Come; מִכָּל שֶׁכֵּן שֶׁלֹּא יִהְיוּ לֶעָתִיד לָבֹא, for example, the detailed laws of pigul and the like. כְּמוֹ פְּרָטֵי דִּינֵי פִּיגּוּל וּכְהַאי גַוְנָא……….

Likewise, all the detailed queries of R. Yirmiya, who posed so many hypothetical possibilities that he was escorted from the House of Study, as the Gemara relates,6

וְכָל פְּרָטֵי הָאִבַּעְיוֹת דְּרַבִּי יִרְמְיָה,

Obviously, his queries involved situations that were entirely unlikely to ever take place.7

and [detailed queries such as] “If she wrapped him…,” in ch. 4 of Chullin,8 וּ”כְרָכַתּוּ כוּ'” פֶּרֶק ד’ דְּחוּלִּין.

The question discussed there is whether a firstborn animal can be considered to have directly “opened the womb” (and hence be sanctified) in either of two hypothetical cases. According to Rashi, it is a question of what happens if the person assisting in the birth entirely wraps up the animal as it is born. According to Rabbeinu Tam, the question involves a multiple birth, with a cow being born together with the firstborn bull, and wrapping itself completely around it—something extremely unlikely to ever occur. Nevertheless, all these detailed queries were given to Moses at Sinai.

5- Mentioned Rabbi Hirschsprung‘s quip regarding Reb Yirmiye. On Daf 23 in בבא בתרא it says that they ousted him for asking outlandish queries. On Daf 165b it says that due to another ruling by Reb Yirmiye he was allowed back in. 

How long was it from the time he was ousted to the time he was allowed back in? 

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Well, said Rabbi Hirschsprung, it depends on the type of Yeshiva he attended. If a Litvishe one, where the learning is slow and cover little ground, it may have taken many years…..If it was a Chassidisher Yeshiva where there is more emphasis on covering many Dafim then it took just a few months….

6-  We mentioned the tragedy that happened in Surfside ר”ל  with the collapsed building. 

Champlain Towers South Condo - 8777 Collins Ave, Surfside FL 33154 - Sunny Isles Condos®

We spoke briefly about a case of of body that is never found and the resulting tragedy of an Aguna. The הלכה is that no mourning is allowed and that a woman ‘should not wear black clothing’. Least people think her husband has been confirmed dead. Here. EH 17, 5 in the רמ”א.

Can You Build A Sukkah From An Elephant? - Sinai and Synapses

7- Our Gemare mentions the use of an elephant as wall of a Sukka. We mention the famous תשובה of the son of the נודע ביהודה ת Reb Shmuel Landau, who discusses the use of non Kosher animals materials in Mitzvos. It’s a long topic and we will elaborate some more on this next week בלי נדר. 

In the meantime here is the piece of his father coming to him in his dream to answer his question, Fascinating stuff. 

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