Shiur Sukkah 34a-b 02/15/2022


Sukkah 34a-b

1st. Adar 14 , 5782. February 15, 2022

1- Our גמרא discusses items that had their names changed over time. It adds the ramification of these changes. 

חילפא גילא with serrated, saw-like, leaves “זעגעלאך”

Rav Chisda said: These three objects had their names changed since the Beis Hamikdosh was destroyed.

One example: That which was once called ערבה (kosher for ערבות) was called in later generations  צפצפה (not kosher),  and that which was called צפצפה was called ערבה. 

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The Gemore asks: What is the practical halakhic difference that emerges from the name change? The גמרא answers: It is with regard to the mitzva of taking the lulav, as one of the species bound with the lulav is a ערבה branch, which is now called tzaftzafa.

The other 2 are:

 שִׁיפּוּרָא — חֲצוֹצַרְתָּא, חֲצוֹצַרְתָּא — שִׁיפּוּרָא. A straight Shofar as opposed to a Shofar that is ‘crooked’. 

Antlers vs. Horns | Words On Wildlife

A small table versus a larger table. פָּתוּרְתָּא — פָּתוּרָא, פָּתוּרָא — פָּתוּרְתָּא

Furniture for dolls - Country style table for miniature dollhouse – купить на Ярмарке Мастеров – A1SU1COM | Doll furniture, Moscow

We mentioned the reason for these name changes. These words would bring agony to people that lived thru the destruction on the Beis Hamikdosh. Uttering the words ערבה שופר and שולחן, would arouse memories and result in sadness. Thus the name changes. 

Dan Rivoli on Twitter: "The Malbone St. Wreck will no longer be lost in history. 101 years after New York's deadliest train crash, it has a street and subway station plaque in

Name Change due to painful memories

2- Abaya adds another example concerning the names of some of the stomachs a cow or bull have. 

מחט שנמצאת בבית הכוסות


The House of Mugs – Collettsville, North Carolina - Atlas Obscura

House of Cups

פניני הלכה הלכות חלב גיד הנשה וניקור | Other - Quizizz


Rav Yosef adds yet another example. בבל and בורסיף. It seem that Bursif, as opposed to  בבל,  was a country that was not held in great esteem by the  חכמים. 

In time, the names of these two independent countries switched. 

The גמרא offers the practical reason for the importance of knowing that this changed occurred. 

.לענין גיטי נשים. 

As Rashi explains in Shabbos 36b,  when writing a גט one needs to mention the name of the city. It is therefore important to know what country is now called בבל and what is called בורסיף.

City with the longest name. The longest names of cities in the world

Try writing a גט here.

3 – We mentioned the fascinating תשובה from the חתם סופר that goes thru the entire idea of how to identify and spell the name of the city where the גט is written. 

He questions our גמרא concerning בבל and בורסיף.

What need is there to state such matters to begin with? Anyone that writes גט needs to inquire what is the current name of the city. So if בבל is now called בורסיף, let it be so. Write , of course, בורסיף as logic would require! What is the חידוש of our גמרא? 

We scratched the surface of the תשובה where the חתם סופר sets parameters on how to spell the name of cities – especially when Jews use a different name than the non-Jewish population. 

Example:  Jews call a particular Romanian city שאץ. (The Rebbe of Shatz, or Shatzer Matzohs). Whereas the official name of the City is Suceava. 

Where is Suceava Located? What Country is Suceava in? Suceava Map

Another example we mentioned a few weeks  ago was צעהלים, . 

Jewish Community of Deutschkreutz

Prague or  Praha. 

Golem & Rabbi Loew of Praha. A golem is an animated human-like being, created entirely from inanimate m… | Retro illustration, Comic illustration, Character design

He further addresses the issue of a city changing names. This can occur in different ways.

A – Officially changed by the government. 

Constantinople, Turkey , which Jews called קושטא, to Istanbul. (Contemporary examples would be Leningrad to Petersburg and (until further notice) back to Petersburg. Yekaterinoslav to Dnipropetrovsk). 

B- Unofficial name changes that occur by the people beginning to use a slightly different name or spelling. 

C- The slow and evolving pronunciation changes of the cities. 

The חתם סופר offers clarity on these issues. 

4- We mentioned the issue of Chicago. Is it טשיקגו or שיקגו

טשיקגו – Chicago, Maxwell St, 1903

5- Also spoke about writing a גט in Melbourne Australia where the local river is the Yarra River. 


The aborigines  call this river Yarra Yarra. The newcomers shortened it to a single Yarra. What do we write in a גט? 

איין יארא אדער צוויי יאראס?

6- We mentioned from a previous shiur the letter from the Ragatchover concerning a פנקס  found with instructions from the Alter Rebbe to write ימא זוטא when a city is adjacent to a lake. 

Shiur Makkos 4a, 06/24/2014

(See there comment at bottom from Alex Heppenheimer). 

7- The next Mishna specifies the amount of each of the ד’ מינים one needs to take. 

We mentioned that despite the many מנהגים to add הדסים of various amounts, we must remember that the שלחן ערוך says that the מדקדקים use only 3 הדסים. So let’s look in our Siddur and not at our neighbor’s skimpy looking  lulav…..


6- We discussed the wording in the Mishnah where is seems that הדסים that have been cut off at the top are Kosher! This is in direct contradiction to the previous Mishnah where it states explicitly 

נקטם ראשו פסול. 

How to Grow Willow From Cuttings - Dengarden

We began to discuss the huge argument amongst the ראשונים on how to reconcile this seeming contradiction.

We read the famous text of the ראב”ד where, to bolster his opinion, he invokes the  רוח הקודש 

that ‘appeared in our בית מדרש‘.

Rambam Lulav 8,5.

הדס שנקטם וכו’. כתב הראב”ד ז”ל כבר הופיע רוח הקודש בבית מדרשנו מכמה שנים והעלינו שהוא פסול כסתם מתני’. ודברי רבי טרפון שאמר אפילו שלשתן קטומים כשר ענין אחר הוא ולא שנקטם ראשו והכל ברור בחבורנו ומקום הניחו לי מן השמים עכ”ל:

We will IY”H continue next week.  







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